R: 451 / I: 75 /
/christian/ Meta thread
Hello and welcome all to /christian/, the new church of the cafe.
I'll be taking over from the old owner, so if there's anything you want to tell me about the board, go ahead and do it here.
In addition, I'm looking for a few mods to maintain the status of the board. If you're interested, please, contact me at firstname.lastname@example.org to let me know.
R: 37 / I: 12 /
Science and religion
So I have been lurking on Christian since 8chan was relevant and I have been wanting to start a science and religion discussion.
I have read a few things about how particle physicians believe that there is something beyond out level of reality, however there are also a ton of people that don't even understand that there are concepts beyond even our understanding of matter.
Like I've had debated with people where I would claim that there could be a being that exists beyond out perception of matter and they just say shit like "if it is there then why haven't we found it yet?" Like we are bound to material so ofcourse we can't see it or interact with it.
Idk tho that's just sort of me ranting.
What do you all think?
R: 10 / I: 2 /
Would Neanderthals have been able to go to heaven?
They had a very complex material and ritual culture, which implies some form of consciousness and perhaps even knowledge of god and the hereafter. Could such beings be said to possess immortal souls, and if so how will they be judged on the last day? This was before Christ, so they would probably be virtuous pagans.
R: 13 / I: 6 /
Who is 666?
R: 18 / I: 0 /
Because I'm not bumping the obvious race bait thread. Note to BO: This isn't another "race focused" thread. This is just me not replying directly to the that thrashy thread and leaving this smart option available for other people to take it
>Indeed. Good thread.
You're responding to a guy who may have posted a CP honeypot here a few days ago. You do realize that right?
>Why does this thread have so many posts?
Let me see
1) OP is samefagging and ignoring everyone like someone payed to spam this nonsense. Which has been reposted for years
2) OP has people samefagging to make it "appear" that we're arguing and having a discussion. Nobody who's authentic on this board is even bumping that thread anymore
3) Actual lurkers who just don't hide the thread and bump better threads to slide that OP's cancerous thread which the mod has still not deleted for some reason
4) board drama I guess. People have the option of hiding and ignoring it. Or just doing what I'm doing right now and not replying directly to OPs post.
R: 195 / I: 62 /
Looks like we've stirred up the hive.
R: 18 / I: 4 /
Saturday vs Sunday Thread
Here is a thread to discuss whether or not Christians should worship on Saturday or Sunday.
Started this thread because the Meme Thread got derailed.
R: 500 / I: 73 /
Questions that do deserve their own thread.
You know the drill. Questions that don't deserve their own thread go in their own threads. Questions that do go here.
R: 162 / I: 57 /
Asian Wife and "Tradition"
Why do /pol/cels act like marrying a Christian Asian girl is against tradition? In Christian tradition, you are supposed to marry a Christian woman who is virgin and will submit to her husband, not a slut or infidel who will rebel against her husband's authority.
If the choice is between an "agnostic" feminist white woman with multiple "partners" who will be the most untraditional wife ever and a Christian Asian girl who is chaste and wants to fulfill her role as a woman and wife, the /pol/cels would still claim the white woman is the correct choice in the name of "kids who look like me."
Even some supposedly tradcuck Catholics will cite Tobit or some other apocrypha against marrying a chaste Asian Christian and settling for the white slut. Nobody can quote a relevant verse from the New Testament.
From everything I can gather, there is no material or religious documentation from this millennia that says marrying a Christian wife of another race is against tradition. Not even liberals consider Asians and Europeans to be different and constantly make laws against both in the name of diversity for darker races, stating East Asians are adjacent to white people. The far right says East Asians are honorary Europeans.
I know most of /pol/ has no truth to their words and just shill for ethnostates, but is there any legitimate and truthful documentation that states two Christians, a European and an East Asian, are going against tradition by marrying?
R: 199 / I: 52 /
Defeating sexual desires
Hello anons. My heart is somewhat heavy as I write this, I do not have anyone that I feel comfortable sharing this with so I am coming here under the cover of anonymity to exchange my thoughts and seek yours on this subject.
Masturbation is a sin
Sex outside of marriage is a sin
Engaging in prostitution is a sin
As a man I have a natural sex drive
I would like help and advice on defeating my sexual desires without committing sin. If I abstain from masturbation, I can refrain from engaging in sexuality for around a period of a week with little difficulty. After that initial 1 week period, it starts to encompass my whole life. I have an erection when I wake up every morning, and I get more throughout the day, at least one an hour and more if I have to interact with any girl under 30. I pray for help in keeping the sexual thoughts away, but it feels like I'm fighting a losing battle and I will relapse at some point no matter what. The longest I've been able to abstain from anything sexual was when I was an atheist and I lasted around a year. After a period of a few months, paradoxically my whole life was concerned with sex, I was not having orgasms however the only thing I had on my mind every day was "I need to find a girl to have sex with" (which never worked), everything was secondary to that. It culminated with me getting cock-teased by a girl I was exchanging with for around a week, getting fed up when I realized I was just getting taken along for a ride then seeking the services of a prostitute, which broke my abstinence and made me lose my virginity, if that concept even exists for a man. I regret the choices I made.
After this chapter in my life, I concluded that the healthiest thing to do was to masturbate once a month to get it out of my system and to be able to live my life without being entranced by sex all the time. Eventually I relapsed and was engaging with porn at least 10 times a week, until I found the faith which helped knock it back down to something more reasonable like 2-4 times a month. However, sin is sin and I would like to be fully rid of it.
I know that the simplest answer is to marry a girl, whoever that does not appear to be possible for me (it appears that my fate is to be an incel which I've come to terms with), so it seems like I've come to an impasse. I can't masturbate without committing sin, and I don't have a way to relieve myself of those sexual desires legitimately. However, if I don't relieve myself of it, it quickly starts to take over my life (I had begun to call the action of masturbation "satiating the beast" in my head). I don't know what to do.
I remember seeing this anon who castrated himself on old 8chan years ago and thought he had lost his mind then, though now every day I start to understand more and more why he wanted to be rid of his sexual desires.
Additional question: Why did God give me (and other men) such a strong sex drive and at the same time put me and a lot of other men (40% of men under 30 reported no sex in the past year in a study around 2018 I believe and that was before the corona lockdowns which must have made that number shoot up even more) in an era where it is extremely difficult to rid yourself of this desire without committing sin?
R: 131 / I: 108 /
Please don't let this one die.
R: 4 / I: 1 /
It's fun to observe normies debate about the Bible and it's origins.
It's like a mini /Xian/ , you have on guy on Sola Scriptura, the Muslim and his heresy, and people kissing the papacy's ass.
What are your favourite hidden books / scriptures?
R: 97 / I: 32 /
A Christian Cultural Revolution
The boards been feeling kinda dead lately so i figured i would make a thread addressing a important issue i dont see often talked about, the idea of a Christian cultural revolution.
I want this thread to be both a place for discussion and coordination on how we accomplish our collective goal of destroying the current demonic culture and establishing a new Christian one.
Keep D&C to a minimum.
Cultural focus points:
Abortion and Sex
Tactical focus points:
Dispersion of Ideas
Methods and Tactics
R: 7 / I: 2 /
Daily Prayer thread
Didn't see a thread like this in the catalog. Wanted to start a prayer thread here. Post anything you would need help with or want prayer for. And let other anons help out.
R: 75 / I: 67 /
Do you have any christian music recommendations? Personally I really like anything that orthodoxmemesquad posts on youtube. Also Elfen lied intro song called lilium is very beautiful.
R: 203 / I: 132 /
Post your Christ-chans here, they bring the image board audience to Christianity.
R: 4 / I: 0 /
satanic global conspiracy in ancient times
Tell me about the satanic global conspiracy, specifically in ancient times before Christ. How can we prove that non-christian ancient religions were satanic (besides them not being Christian)? I was talking to ta pastor who said that God allowed angels (that God called Gods peculiarly) to rule the nations, and Satan deceived those angles, when Jesus came he took the rule of those angels.
R: 13 / I: 1 /
Praying the Psalms
What do you guys make of using the Psalms as a prayer book? I'm an Orthodox Christian and just recently purchased a pocket sized Psalter (pic related, it's the one I bought from Jordanville), and decided to incorporate the Psalms into my daily prayer life.
Do any of you pray the Psalms? Have you considered it? Do you use the Septuagint or Masoretic Texts as the basis for your Psalter?
R: 72 / I: 12 /
Joy of Satan Ministries
I recently found this cult called Joy of Satan Ministries thanks to a friend of mine. I honestly find it interesting because of the number of years this site has been on the Internet (JoSM was created in 2002) and because of their ideas which are very strange. The main thing is that they believe that some kind of Pleiadian called Satan created mankind, that all the pagan gods are the same, and that the reptilians created Christianity. They also believe that all major religions were created to take spiritual power away from Gentiles. Apparently a lot of his ideas were taken from another weirder site called "Luciferian Liberation Front" which from the design of the site I can tell was around a long time before.
Honestly I really don't know if everything the site says is true, I've talked about this with other people and they tell me that a lot of what the site talks about is bullshit but there are still other things that might make sense to me.
First, what is the possibility that Christianity was created by some other civilization that is hostile to ours and that there is no creator god of the universe, if not that it existed from nothing? I don't know, when researching the site I ended up asking myself that question many times. I also clarify that I do not endorse the site nor did I make this thread for the purpose of spamming, I am really curious if there is a possibility of this being true or just a psyop.
(Their main page)
(A forum related to JoS)
(the "Luciferian Liberation Front")
R: 10 / I: 2 /
fear of eternity
subject says it all, since i was a kid (born and raised catholic) i've had a fear of the very essence of eternity. both with god and seperated, i understand that i shouldn't fear it but i do, I've asked for priests advice during confessions, I've fasted, I've tried to pray as much as i can and I just feel like its all in vain (even though i know it not). I've never stopped going to mass weekly (I try to make latin mass as often as possible too) please help me frens this has been crippling my life for as long as i can remember, I'm hyperventilating just typing this and its always in the back of my head giving me a sense of dread if i'm not actively freaking out about it
R: 318 / I: 74 /
Genesis + Biblical Creation
This thread is for discussion and the sharing information critical of evolution, old earth, attempts to allegorize the early chapters of Genesis, etc.
I will be posting some basic info critical of (Neo-)Darwinism shortly.
R: 34 / I: 8 /
Dicerning the Filioque
I am trying to discern the truth of the filioque. But before I can discern whether it's doctrinally acceptable, I need to figure out what it actually means.
It seems to me there are three different ways to understand the Filioque,
as I have diagrammed. Which one is correct?
All the apologists seem to take the "through the son" position, but that's not what the Catechism says. Am I reading the Catechism wrong?
Also, I am not convinced the filioque can be waved away as a language issue. If it were a language issue, why is the filioque said in the Roman Rite in English but omitted in the Byzantine Rite in English (https://youtu.be/wmW2I-UN_Ak?t=3079)?
Why does the Roman Rite include the filioque in all languages except
Greek? Greek can't be the one unique language with the problem, because it is both included and omitted in other languages depending on rite.
Either the filioque itself is heresy or rejecting it is heresy; as at the Second Council of Lyons (1274) Pope Paul VI condemned those “who presume to deny that the Holy Spirit proceeds eternally from the Father and the Son.” But even then, Pope Paul VI's condemnation came in 1274, almost 200 years before
Florence defined it. So if he understood the filioque the way Aquinas understood it (Option 2), is his condemnation even applicable?
What is even going on here?
R: 18 / I: 5 /
Prots and Catholics = Cain and Abel?
Abel gave great offerings to God and gained His favor. Cain gave meager offerings to God and was envious that his brother enjoyed more of God's blessings.
The Catholic Church has accomplished many great deeds and spread the word of God to the corners of the earth. They build great cathedrals, make beautiful art and sing beautiful music to glorify God and as a result God has blessed The Catholic Church with power, influence, and a long legacy.
Protestants on the other hand seem to be more concerned with what God can do for them rather than what they can do for God and as a result their church is scattered, disorganized and largely irrelevant on the global stage. They are also filled with a burning hatred for their Catholic brothers and besmirch their name at every opportunity calling them evil pagans because they dare be more successful.
R: 5 / I: 0 /
What makes the King James Version so special?
R: 24 / I: 4 /
>most depictions of the apostles show them in old age as serious looking men with grey beards
>if they lived into the 60s AD they were probably in their 20s, at the maximum their 30s, if not younger when they were with Jesus because the age of adulthood was lower in ancient times
R: 25 / I: 5 /
I want nothing at all to do with this world, but I don't really know how to live in this world with the problems I have against it.
>Employment means income tax which funds all manner of abomination and would likely subject me to antichristian "diversity/tolerance/sensitivity training" and might even try to compel me to "bake their cake" so to speak.
>Land ownership means property tax which funds lies and antichrist indoctrination for the youth in public schools or abominations like "drag queen story hour" in public libraries.
>Car ownership means the state-mandated insurance racket, which is tolerable IMO, but I have no reason to drive without a job (I can walk to what I need from where I live currently)
I know Christ said render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, but I just have a hard time with knowing that my labor or land ownership would mean tax funding for Satan. I don't want to be idle, but I also don't want to help Satan deceive and destroy through taxes if possible.
Anyone have any advice on this? or some wisdom from the scriptures that comes to your mind that might help? Is it just something we have to accept while living in this world?
R: 45 / I: 31 /
How to be free of fear?
TLDR: I know I have to get rid of fear with religion, but I don't know how.
I feel like I am in some sort of extreme apathy. No, I'm not into dark thoughts of ending life. It's more of an extreme apathy of not feeling any positive emotion at all. I'm not sure how to explain it properly, I'm sorry. It's like I am unable to receive happiness or I am unable to enjoy fun playing videogames. As if I am emotionally sterile.
I need to open my heart and be honest and say what I'm really thinking, but I have a problem with trust. I don't reveal my honest thoughts, my honest opinions to even my family (who are very nihilistic) because every time I open myself to a problem I get the "your problems aren't worth sharing" treatment and they quickly change the topic. I have a few friends but they are not RL friends.
I won't go to many details but this basically led me to a situation where I let fear govern me and myself, and this went on for around 10 years or so.
Why the heck am I posting this in the Christianity boards? Because I used to be Christian when I was a teen, going to the church for months and I had a better mental health... until my mother did a "how dare you" speech onto me, making me stop following Christianity.
I believe that there is a connection. If I am Christian, there is no fear. Otherwise there is fear within me. I think I need to go back to my Christian ways to finally get rid of my fear. Problem is that my fear seems to be that big that I don't come up with any steps to get started.
R: 59 / I: 8 /
The Good /christian/ Poorfag's Cookbook
I'm looking at writing a poorfag's cookbook because I sincerely believe sharing good food is a route to sharing beliefs and the world is going to need to learn to eat cheaper and better at the same time. If anon has recipes he would like to submit I will include them.
Some sections I'm thinking for the book:
>Section on common food preparation and storage tools to have on-hand
>Section on oils/fats and which ones are cheap or worth avoiding
>Section on affordable teas, tisanes, and drinkable infusions (and why you should buy loose leaf in bulk)
>Section on ethical meat consumption to reduce costs and be closer to god
Not no meat consumption but ethical meat consumption.
>Section on what to do with tablescraps and what foods can be eaten to avoid waste (such as beet stalks or radish greens)
>Maybe a subsection on gardening in limited space
>Section on why foreign foods should not be discounted when working on a budget
>Cookbook section on stews and soups
>Cookbook section on baking
>Cookbook section on bread specifically since breadmaking is an important skill
>Cookbook section on stir-fry and other one-pot dishes that aren't soup
>Cookbook section on no-cooking-required or minimal-cooking-required dishes
>Cookbook section on brewing beer, winemaking, and vinegar-making
>Cookbook section on preserved goods (pickling, salting, canning, chemical sealing, heat drying, and freeze drying)
I want to work on it a little bit at a time every weekend with the goal being to have a proof-of-concept rough draft to share with other boards by June and a semi-complete PDF by August. I want to focus primarily on three foods since the book is meant for poorfags first and foremost:
>Foods that are cheap and nutritious
>Foods that can be made in bulk
>Foods that are perhaps not cheap (and nutrition is questionable), but that can be stored for long periods of time or made from basic ingredients in times of emergency
I think such a PDF has almost certainly been made before, but maybe not for the purposes being considered.
R: 16 / I: 5 /
The claims about the formation of the faith of Abraham
I have heard multiple claims about the formation of our scripture, such as
>Exodus didn't happen
>There was no Conquest of Canaan
>Israelites were originally canaanites who broke off after the bronze age collapse
>They worshiped the canaanite pantheon before a refugee group from egypt gave them the cult of Yahweh
>They were roaming farmers who got into "sporadic conflict" with other ethnic groups
>Moses didn't exist
>Most of the OT was written in the 6th century BC, when Persians from the Zoroastrian religion gave them ideas for their faith, such as the idea of messiahs, heaven and hell, angels, armageddon, etc.
among other things, thoughts?
R: 11 / I: 2 /
is there such thing as "OT reconstructionism": trying (for chrisians)to live like nomad patriarchs? Having cattle,investing in gold and silver,etc..I just thought of this idea,I havent read it anywhere else.
maybe some jews do this,including burnt offerings? i remember seeing some stuff about descendants of levites still being recognized today.
we read ABOUT the genesis,but has anyone tried to LIVE the genesis?
R: 79 / I: 31 /
Let's get radical, goys.
R: 74 / I: 5 /
Why is the trinity more necessary than alternative divine nature doctrines? Like unitarianism (Judaism, Islam), or semi-polytheism (Hinduism). Even if the Father and the Son are necessary for making a complete link between the metaphysical and the material, why is the Holy Spirit deemed essential to the formula, despite no one entirely being sure what the Holy Spirit is even for?
R: 23 / I: 3 /
How do I memorize the Lord's prayer?
R: 34 / I: 8 /
is using the "Death Drive" a good thing or a -sin-?
I just want to die but dont want to KMS really. I do stuff that I know will kill me sooner even tho its not "suicide"(too much caffeine, strenous excercise,which damages mithocondria,etc).
I know gnosticism is a heresy but I hate human bodies because theyre ranked by Nature according to hierarchical beauty standards. Many times I almost go to a slum/shanty town area on porpouse to try and fight with some knife-wielding mugger/thief.
what do i DO? im reading the Imitatio Crist,trying to apply it,but im so obsessed,hung up on,Beauty...that book just turns me into a despondent nihilist even more.
>the Death Drive is when you give so much 0 fuggs about everything,that you can perform anything,any outrageous task,since you dont care anyways
R: 18 / I: 4 /
The Andy Griffith Stream
I will be occasionally streaming The Andy Griffith Show
on cytube because I can't figure out how to enable audio on Gikopoi despite following the guide.
Follow the link above in case anon wants to join in. It's an old 60s show that my mother grew up on that tries to combine comedy with teaching good ethics and moral standards. To quote the synopsis;
Widower Sheriff & Justice of The Peace Andy Taylor, and his son Opie, live with Andy's Aunt Bee in Mayberry, North Carolina. With virtually no crimes to solve, most of Andy's time is spent philosophizing and calming down his ex-military cousin, Deputy Barney Fife.
Regarding the tone of the show, Griffith said that despite a contemporary setting, the show evoked nostalgia, saying "Well, though we never said it, and though it was shot in the '60s, it had a feeling of the '30s. It was, when we were doing it, of a time gone by."
Streams have no set schedule but will probably be some time around American afternoons in the 3-6 range on weekdays with maybe the occasional Sunday. An announcement will be made 30 minutes before any showing. First showing will be in a half hour. We'll be watching old 1930s educational videos until then. This is a wholesome stream, so please refrain from excessively foul language or topics (detours are fine).
Each episode is self-contained; The first episode just introduces the four main characters, so you can accurately follow along without having ever seen it, and just ask anon if there is a new character you don't recognize!
I think this clip will give anon an accurate representation of what he's getting himself into: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It2TE4OuG-U
First episode: https://a.cockfile.com/ghuJHy.mp4
If there is anyone else you think would enjoy this, please invite them.
R: 9 / I: 0 /
Prove Me Wrong
To whoever comes across and wants to post on this board: Don't. It's a bunch of people arguing in circles about the world's most boring topics, fruitlessly because they already decided beforehand that they'll never agree on anything, who can't even generate any OC.
R: 0 / I: 0 /
Mostly he convicts me when I have done wrong and gives me the strength to do what is right.
R: 63 / I: 22 /
Image related is what the white nationalists think of Nazi Christians, while you're larping about killing niggers and jJews you will always be seen as elite Jewish lovers. Despite the facts that not all jews are evil or in the elite, especially not a jew that lived a sinless life. Bad behavior is deeper than just race, anyone can do evil and killing off entire races won't remove evil.
R: 23 / I: 10 /
How does God speak to you? Some Christians say he doesn't actually speak, but still sends messages to them. What is your experience.
R: 22 / I: 4 /
Pope Francis’s latest plans fuel rumours over resignation
Francis to host consistory in August then visit Perdonanza Celestiniana festival, initiated by pope who resigned
>Rumours swirling since early May that Pope Francis might retire have been fuelled by an announcement that he will be attending a feast initiated by a 13th-century pope who himself resigned.
>Speculation that the 85-year-old might follow in the footsteps of his predecessor Benedict XVI and step down from his post was prompted in early May when he appeared in public using a wheelchair for the first time, after undergoing a minor operation to treat knee pain.
>It gained momentum when he made the unusual decision to host a consistory on 27 August to create new cardinals, some of whom will be eligible to elect the pontiff’s successor at the next conclave.
>The next day, Francis will travel to L’Aquila, the Abruzzo town ravaged by an earthquake in 2009, for the Perdonanza Celestiniana festival, during which he will visit the cathedral that hosts of the tomb of Celestine V, a hermit pope who resigned in 1294 after just five months in the job. Benedict also visited the tomb in 2009, leaving behind his pallium stole in what some commentators at the time said was a symbolic gesture ahead of his own resignation, which came in 2013.
>“It’s very odd to have a consistory in August, there’s no reason that he needs to call this [event] three months in advance and then go to L’Aquila in the middle of it,” said Robert Mickens, the Rome-based editor of the English-language edition of La Croix, a Catholic daily newspaper.
>A week after the consistory the pontiff will meet the cardinals to brief them about his reforms to the Vatican’s central administration, which include imposing term limits on the chiefs of Vatican offices and allowing women to hold such posts.
>“I think there’ll be another announcement: it might not be that he’s going to resign, but I think that’s a very good possibility,” added Mickens.
>At the start of his papacy Francis said he would like to see the resignation of a pope becoming normal, and in 2015 he said he had a feeling that his pontificate would be brief, describing Benedict’s decision to step down as “courageous”.
>Benedict, who chose to be called Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI instead of reverting to Joseph Ratzinger, was 85 at the time of his resignation.
>“There’s a lot of symbolism at play here and I view [the speculation] with a bit of cynicism,” said Christopher White, the Vatican correspondent for the National Catholic Reporter. “I don’t think it’s likely Francis will want two retired popes in the background. Unintentionally or not, having one pope in an undefined role has been a source of occasional headaches for Francis.”
>White added that one of the things Francis wanted to do, should Benedict die before him, was institute reforms on the role a retired pope should play. The pontiff would also most likely want to see through the synod on synodality, a two-year process that ends with a major summit at the Vatican in October 2023.
>“That being said, the major thing we’ve learnt about this pope in the last 10 years is that he continues to surprise us, and he seems to take great delight in that surprise element,” said White.
R: 74 / I: 23 /
Does Christianity truly support globalism/communism?
This sentiment is shared throughout pagan and other anti-christian circles.
R: 42 / I: 19 /
There seems to be a multitude of users on imageboards stuck living generally broken lives. How can /christian/ minister to this?
R: 16 / I: 10 /
>Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. (2 Tim. 4:2)
Post information (books, links, images, etc.) that defend the truth of Christianity, explain difficult to understand scripture passages, answer anti-Christian arguments, and other things of that nature.
R: 9 / I: 1 /
Struggling with sexting addiction and pornography
I'm writing this post, because I am at a loss. I have been addicted to sexting and pornography since I was 13 years old and I will be 22 this month. For 4 years I've been trying to overcome this habit, but I haven't been succesful. It seems that I cannot overcome this disgusting vice by sheer willpower alone. Even if I go months without it, I invitably relapse and end up binging for weeks. I don't want to live this way anymore. I have prayed to God and I have asked for the strength to stay abstinent, but still I keep relapsing.
How do you guys resist the lure of lust and how do you stay abstinent? It's hurting me a lot, because I keep promising God that I won't do it again and then the very next day it happens again. It's as if something dark takes over and overwrites my normal reasoning. I don't want to live this way anymore and it's really taking a toll on my mental and physical wellbeing and my relationship with God. I appreciate any advice that you guys can give me.
R: 25 / I: 6 /
LO, THE END COMETH
End Times prophecy.
R: 1 / I: 1 /
Proff of a creator
I've seen a few things here and there about advanced PHD majors basically saying that there is inteligent design and what not and I was wondering if there were any books I could read regarding those topics?
I think that modern science has been placed at a halt in most categories because of the modern way of thinking when it comes to science.
I even believe that the current science as we come to understand it today is comestly flawed in its thinking and is often cencored.
R: 4 / I: 0 /
Imagine being a Jew lmao
>Sanhedrin 97a and 97b
The school of Eliyahu taught: Six thousand years is the duration of the world. Two thousand of the six thousand years are characterized by chaos; two thousand years are characterized by Torah, from the era of the Patriarchs until the end of the mishnaic period; and two thousand years are the period of the coming of the Messiah.
That is the course that history was to take, but due to our sins that time frame increased. The Messiah did not come after four thousand years passed, and furthermore, the years that elapsed since then, which were to have been the messianic era, have elapsed.
Rabbi Alexandri says: Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi raises a contradiction between two depictions of the coming of the Messiah. It is written: “There came with the clouds of heaven, one like unto a son of man…and there was given him dominion and glory and a kingdom…his dominion is an everlasting dominion” (Daniel 7:13–14). And it is written: “Behold, your king will come to you; he is just and victorious; lowly and riding upon a donkey and upon a colt, the foal of a donkey” (Zechariah 9:9). Rabbi Alexandri explains: If the Jewish people merit redemption, the Messiah will come in a miraculous manner with the clouds of heaven. If they do not merit redemption, the Messiah will come lowly and riding upon a donkey.
Rabbi Simlai says in the name of Rabbi Elazar, son of Rabbi Shimon: The son of David will not come until all the judges and officers will cease to exist from among the Jewish people, and there will be no more autonomous government in Eretz Yisrael
R: 51 / I: 21 /
Reading Recommendation and Docs Thread
Exactly what it says. Post titles, PDFs, TXTs, quotes, whatever you think a Christian should read.
And feel free to amend this list as needed.
R: 123 / I: 34 /
Occult Symbolism Within the Context of Christianity
ive been looking into the different meaning of occult symbols (primarily goats and stars) within the context of Christianity.
A picture is emerging.
post information related to the topic, especially regarding the Sumerians and Babylonians as they seem to have the most interesting connections. Keep schizo shit to a minimum, i really only want sources and descriptions. I prefer to come to my own conclusions
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>We are justified by faith alone
>Oh but baptism also gives salvation
What the fuck was his problem?
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Christian compatible media
Response to the other thread >>2932
. We can get confirmations of our values from other sources, and so on. I have some suggestions for places to start. If some of my choices seem for the young or superficial, just build on it judiciously.
- The Passion of the Christ (2004) (almost doesn't count as it's religious, but I feel I have to put it here)
- A Man for All Seasons (1966): Religion and law
- The Mission (1986): Martial values and exploration
- Tarkovsky films
- Kurosawa and other samurai films
- Films for life and social values: It's a Wonderful Life (1946), The Notebook (2004), Groundhog Day (1993). Because common social illnesses, like alienation and social ineptitude, can be partially cured by film. This is pretty relevant for channers.
- The Simpsons: seasons 1-12
- History and politics documentaries, I can attest to those from when The History Channel still featured history, but those past 2005, and on Youtube, might be corrupted by political correctness.
- "The Secret Rulers of the World: The Bilderberg Group": This is one of the best known documentaries on secret societies, focusing on the strongest NWO faction. Knowledge that the world has been hijacked by corrupt people, is a normal and purifiable state of affairs in cycles of history, and should not break one's faith in God, but rather, should invigorate the spirit of helping to deliver salvation for mankind.
- Persona 3/4/5: These contain a lot of worthwhile virtues and social values. Very unexpected for a summoning-themed game. I don't think I have to explain to anons here that spirits in the game aren't actually harmful. Obviously don't dabble in occult stuff.
- Ghosts of Tsushima: as has been noted across the internet, the themes of siege are relevant. This is one of the few recent games that is excellent.
- Shonen manga has vitality, where modern SJW infested comics don't. Naruto, Demon Slayer, and Attack on Titan, are extremely popular worldwide.
- Umaru-chan: Amusing and fun for both genders
- Revisit old Western comics like Judge Dredd, Asterix, Tintin, etc.
- Bach, Beethoven: Their simpler works are good places to start. Both sometimes defiant of tradition, but ultimately compatible.
- Video game OSTs, especially Japanese VG OSTs. Where other popular music has been gutted, VG music, especially Japan's, are some of the remaining still living media, and have a lot of vitality and boundary pushing works.
- Scruton - How to Be a Conservative: This is the broadest touchstone for modern conservative conversation. This one's mostly Christian compatible.
- History books give clues on how power, virtue, and order, are transferred in civilization. Toynbee's two-volume summary is a decent overview. We can discuss shorter intros for specific topics that aren't ruined by political correctness.
- Always furnish what you gain from media, with your core values from faith and God.
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What the FUCK was his problem?
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Why do Christians not support Blasphemy Laws?
In Saudi Arabia, you can be executed for insulting the Prophet. In Burma you get arrested you mocking the Buddha. In most of the Western world you can go to prison for questioning the Holocaust.
Meanwhile Christians allow themselves and Christianity to be mocked in denigrated in the name of "Free Speech" and "Freedom of Expression".
Why do Christians allow themselves to be mocked in this way. Nobody takes the religion seriously anymore, even traditionally minded westerners are converting to Islam and Hinduism. Would people start taking us seriously again if they could be killed for mocking us, like they can for other religions?
Note that I'm not saying you should kill people, this is just a hypothetical.
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Should one convert for pragmatic reasons?
Hello /christian/, I have the following problem:
Currently, I live in an Orthodox country. I am Catholic and firmly believe in the truthfulness of the Church. I have respect for the Orthodox Church but it seems to me like a form of proto-Protestantism with the way it dumbed down certain important aspects of the Church, such as:
>sole focus on iconography but no statues (less effort)
>some church buildings constructed like an afterthought
>conflating national identity with the Church
>not welcoming to potential conversos
>as good as non-existent proselytizing
General issues such as:
>disregarding the supreme authority of the papacy
>"uncreated light" theology
>cannot stop seething about Catholics while Catholics don't even think about any misdeeds from the Orthodox
Good things about it:
>most authentic branch of the Church
>no effeminate clergy
>celibacy is not a must
>local parishes everywhere where I am
>you always find a couple of truly devoted Orthodox believers
>sense of community
While I believe in the absolute truthfulness of the Catholic faith, it is an isolating experience not being among faithful and not partaking in liturgy. Having a circle of secular friends is easy to have but there needs to be a balance with having a faithful community. Plus, finding a good wife is only possible in a church through the community. Needless to mention I am a Latin Rite Catholic, any form of Novus Ordo, even Byzantine Mass, is torturous.
Is it allowed to begome Ordodox in these circumstances?
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Which Church to attend?
Russianon from Germany here. The following:
>research the two ancient Churches, the Catholic and Orthodox Church
>Catholic Church is theologically and morally the absolute truth
>begome Gadolig in the Latin Rite
>have nothing in common with parishioners
>in typical German fashion, robotic and self-castrated to the core
>don't appreciate their religion
>no strong ties, no vigor, no strength
>be in Ordodox countries
>all Catholic parishes are Novus Ordo, covid reminders taped on entrance, liturgy is gay
>go to Ordodox monastery and parish
>liturgy similar to Latin Rite
>when I tell people I am Russian they think I'm Orthodox and welcome me as one of their own
>mentality very similar
>Ordodox countries were raped by Communism and still resist Western Globohomo to some extent
>some discriminate you if you are not Orthodox (as it should be)
Theologically the Catholic Church is superior and truest, Orthodox Church is right on some things but gravely in error in some others but culturally I fit better with the people from Orthodox countries. What do?
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It appears no church or denomination is correct
I have found Christianity itself to be the truest and most virtuous religion in the world, but no denomination, no church, no community seems to have gotten it right yet.
On one hand you have the protestants who are rife with political agenda and the worst followers imaginable, but then you have the catholics led by a complete fraud called the papacy. Even the old orthodox are fractured and also worship graven images.
Other religions of the world are not as divided as us, Shia and Sunni Muslims seem to get along most of the time, while we Christians are at each others throats at every opportunity.
Where did it go so wrong?
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Romans 9 teaches double predestination
There is doctrine which is poison to fallen man's ears (and even some regenerate men's ears) because it utterly banishes them from having any control whatsoever over God's will, which is a notion that is patently offensive to a sinner, who covets God's throne. So it was that many false brothers over the millennia invented their own doctrines which would exalt themselves rather than God, claiming to be saved by their own good works and chosen for their own righteousness. But scripture knows nothing of such nonsense, God always seeking to humble man and put him in his place so that His name may be glorified above all and by all. So it is we find in Romans 9 a scripture which absolutely cuts down all men and reminds them of their place as creatures, whom their creator is free to do with as He pleases.
The start of the passage must not be neglected as it defines everything that follows; we see Paul, who loves his nation, lamenting the apostasy of his nation going so far as to say "For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers". But as to them should have belonged the adoption, the glory, the covenants and the promises, it raises the question of why it is that they have been cut off? How is it that they are not all Israel who are of Israel? Paul does not leave the question hanging but without a break in the conversation flows straight in to the simple answer: "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated". But, Paul says, it was not as though He was suddenly turning His back on the Jews for no reason, but this had always been His way as He said to Moses "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy" and to pharaoh "For this reason I raised you up, so that in you my power might be revealed and my name glorified in all the earth". So then the Jews were set up for destruction not because of any failure on their part and the gentiles set for righteousness not because of any success but because of the purposes of God.
But Paul anticipates an objection as he knows how such divine teaching stings in the minds of weak and fallen men, which we hear often from atheists and other heathens: "Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?" that is, "If my will is not supremely free I cannot be blamed for my sins". But who is a man to answer back to God, a rebel sinner to accuse the holy one against whom he rages of evil? May a pot say to the one who formed it "why have you made me like this?" So Paul answers and brings us to our conclusion: "God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory". So the elect were created to be saved, and the reprobates were created to be damned, all to the praise of His glorious grace. Not that the content of God's decree shall be held against the reprobate on the last day, but only their sins, which they truly chose and enjoyed to commit by their very real mind and will. So no blame for their evil may be placed on God's head, since it was truly their evil and they truly deserved to be destroyed as did we all, even those whom He has saved for He has done so solely because of His good pleasure.
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Here's something you won't like hearing( please read the whole post):
Being a Christian and also being a turbo-weeb is not only missing the entire point, but a sign you haven't truly devoted yourself to God. It's a symptom of your obsession with internet culture, and it's unhealthy. The "wholesome anime" threads are rife with examples of anons who just... Don't get it. You're in the same camp as the people who come here and also post about Jews and black people and throw out all kinds of slurs, offensive words and just plain crude language.
Racists: You are using Christianity as an affirmation to your political beliefs. Jesus is not an accessory. Your beliefs seem to come as a reaction to the modern world and very limiting definitions of the political spectrum.
Nerds/Weebs/Whatever: I've seen many a post about justifying a piece of media as "Christian" because it includes vague, pseudo-religious themes. What you're doing is like an argument I had with a teenager about whether or nor "Take Me to Church" by Hozier was a Christian song because it uses church in a metaphorical way. It's also just inconsistent for a Christian to have this weird obsession with anime and it sort of marks you as socially defective in the first place.
Christianity is not something you can intertwine with your current, worldly lifestyle. I'm NOT making this post to judge, I've frequented a few chans and the like, I get the culture, but mixing it together misses the point big time. This is being brought to your attention for the purpose of personal reflection on your own values. I only say some of this stuff because I understand. I wish you the best. Being self-aware about myself and how I come off is not something I take for granted, because I know there are people out there who are just wired differently and in some instances lack the ability to do so. If you're one of those people, I'm here to throw you a bone, but you have to understand why these things are no bueno.
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Hello, I was hoping someone here could help me find a denomination/church I would feel comfortable going to.
I am not comfortable with icons
I REALLY love choirs
I believe in salvation trough faith alone
I believe in preservation of the saints
I do not like going to church on Sunday
do not say Lutheran.
Why no Sunday?
I heard going to church on Sunday is some roman/catholic stuff and that's bad.
Jesus said he is the lord of the sabbath.
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Right now there are literally demons flying around the atmosphere in spherical and saucer shaped craft hunting for innocents to terrify and to anally rape. Mandatory public schools teach children that they are no more than rearranged pondscum. Sodomites parade through our streets and have an entire month dedicated to sinful 'pride'. Millions of men are being filled with estrogen and are pretending to be women, having their genitals mutilated. Millions of women are being filled with testosterone and are pretending to be men, having their genitals mutilated. Every sort of bizarre sex-act imaginable is available at the click of a button. Most children are exposed to hardcore pornography before the age of ten. Hedonistic fornicating women believe that the mass-execution of innocent children is a 'human right'. Most marriages end in divorce. The nuclear family is dissolving. Witchcraft and occultism are more trendy and practiced more than ever before. Millions of Westerners regularly engage in pagan practices such as yoga, and believe in things like karma and reincarnation, even self-professed Christians. Most Christians believe in a false Gospel. Heresy is rampant. Sodomites fill the Churches. Ecumenists promote reconciliation with Christ-killing Jews and Islamic antichrists. Transhumanists are controlling society. They are part of a mother earth cult and wish to depopulate the globe to 500 million people. Millions of people were forcibly injected with experimental gene therapy and forced to technocratic system with a proto-Mark of the Beast. Our society is controlled by Jews and transhumanist billionaires.
"In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world.”
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Are people inherently good or bad?
Does God's good creation exist within us or does original sin override that?
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>touch the fingerprint sensor on my phone
>my brain: guess thats the mark of the beast
>have anxiety forever
when will it end
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Fake Reddit "Christians" Defend Abortion, Deny Hell
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Iconodule Thread: In Defence of Icons
Since we have vile Muslims and prots who attack our Holy Icons. I decided to make a thread dedicated to posting icons and defending Iconography.
Icons means image. Images can be words (spoken or written), symbols, parables, drawings, etc.. The bible is iconographic. It images biblical persons and events through written words or spoken recitations. Biblical verses can also be depicted in drawings/icons (pic: Gergesene demoniacs; Pharisee and Publican). The Bible is clear against the worship of images while being in support of images. All bible verses that call out images, are in the context of the image being worshiped or replacing God (i.e. someone believing the wood and ink created them and can save them)
-Biblical events symbolize/image other things
The incarnated Son of God is an image/icon of the Divine.
>Colossians 1:15: He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
>John 12:45: "And whoever sees me sees him who sent me."
The old covenent is an image of the new covenent
>Matthew 5:17: “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. "
Messianic prophecies through images (many examples but I will give one, joseph is an image of Christ)
>Joseph was rejected by his family, was put in the earth, was accepted by gentiles, was exalted among gentiles, saved the entire world during the famine
>Christ was rejected by Israelites, was accepted by gentiles, was put in the earth, was exalted, saved humanity by destroying death
-Man made material images in place of worship
Cherubim icons in place of worship
>Exodus 26:1: “Moreover, you shall make the tabernacle with ten curtains of fine twined linen and blue and purple and scarlet yarns; you shall make them with cherubim skillfully worked into them."
Joshua and Israelites bow down before two massive Cherubim icons.
>Exodus 25:22: There I will meet with you, and from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubim that are on the ark of the testimony, I will speak with you about all that I will give you in commandment for the people of Israel.
>Joshua 7:6: Then Joshua tore his clothes and fell to the earth on his face before the ark of the Lord until the evening, he and the elders of Israel. And they put dust on their heads.
-Divine effects from interacting with man made objects out of faith and obedience to God, not the object itself.
Looking at a symbolic man made bronze serpent heals you
>Numbers 21:8-9: And the Lord said to Moses, “Make a fiery serpent and set it on a pole, and everyone who is bitten, when he sees it, shall live.” So Moses made a bronze serpent and set it on a pole. And if a serpent bit anyone, he would look at the bronze serpent and live.
Sick woman desperately tries to touch the garment of Christ, not out of faith for the garment, but out of faith in Christ.
>Luke 8:44: "She came up behind him and touched the fringe of his garment, and immediately her discharge of blood ceased. "
St John of Damascus
Debunking Iconoclasts using the Bible only (even though I clearly did that above)
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The new gods of modernity
We are seeing the death of the west because they abandoned the true God for a lie and I worshipped and served the creation rather than the creator. The western nations have fashioned gods for themselves, which they name "Science" and "Diversity" and "LGBT", among other things. These pagans are zealous worshippers of their gods, and will at the least mock and scorn those who would dare to defy or disclaim their gods, but more commonly cry out for blood demanding the persecution of those who speak blasphemy against their gods. For their idolatry the wrath of the only true God waxes hot against the white man, and smites Europe and America with a host of brown people invading and stealing away their lands in fulfillment of the scripture which says "Cursed shall you be when you go in, and cursed shall you be when you go out". These nations which once shone with the light of the gospel now sit on the dilemma of two styles of death: death from the subhumans within, or the invaders without. Therefore there is only one escape by which the white race can survive: to repent and restore their faith in the almighty God who brings His strength against them.
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Daily reminder that icons and statues in churches are idols and no amount of linguistic pilpuling about ‘veneration’ will change this fact. God is extremely clear in what He commands:
>Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them
And yet when one goes into an Orthodox Church, this is exactly what one sees. Lines of people going in and bowing before icons of saints and Mary, crossing themselves and kissing the icons. The deacons go about and wave incense before the icons of the saints, Mary and Jesus. The same goes for Catholics. I tried to fall for the so-called ‘apostolic’ church meme for a while, but to see them kiss and worship the images of saints rang major alarm bells in my head, no matter how many copes I read from apologists online. Iconolatry is idolatry, and idolatry will lead you to the hellfire.
Protestantism has flaws, but at least ones who are consistent in reading Scripture can realize that nothing but God is due worship and veneration, and that the praying to the saints and Mary is a pagan innovation. Faith in Christ and gathering in His name is enough. Do not be led astray by idol-venerators and other crypto-pagans.
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im sorry but I cant be a christian/catholic any more. the church supports obedience to the State,to the laws,obedience to pigs(police),paying taxes.
i HATE taxes,the goverment(any goverment),i hate the police and the military.
I cant accept a religion based on civil obedience and femenine submission .
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Christian Nationalism and The Social Regin of Christ
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And I looked and behold a pale horse and he that sat on him was called Death and Hell followed with him
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What's up with Luke 9:50 and should it be applied politically (politics between countries and/or politics between denominations)?
KJV for convenience:
>And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.
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The Virgin Mary
The Theotokos, Queen of Heaven, and Mother of God. This is the thread for discussing Mariology, miracles, apparitions, and visions of our Lord's Mother.
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Discuss Saints, Blessed, Venerable and other Servants of God.
Discuss their shrines, feasts, attributes and patronages.
Do you have a patron saint?
Who is the patron saint of your family, home, nation, profession or condition?
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Deliverance after death?
It's generally understood that there can be no deliverance after death. Yet traditional Christianity has long upheld the doctrine of the Harrowing of Hell, that Jesus descended into Hell during His death to deliver the Old Testament righteous as they could not save themselves being under the weight of original sin. So it seems that there was a special case in which this applied. There is also the ancient tradition of prayers for the death. Now, without consideration of Roman Catholic dogmas of purgatory, was this a one-time event? That is, that Christ no longer harrows Hell, and those that die in ignorance of the gospel, for example, following His death and resurrection are condemned to eternal damnation? Or, being that Heaven and Hell are timeless, did in the Harrowing Jesus bring up all the men and women throughout history worthy of deliverance as per His judgement, and not just the spirits of those that died prior to His crucifixion?
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Put on your wedding dress!
Christianity is actually about becoming metaphysically feminine in relation to God. The entire Bible is one giant nuptial metaphor. Christ is the Bridegroom, the individual soul is His bride. We are to be receptive to God, who is the ultimate masculine. God is going to put you in a dress. The Bible says so:
>“Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready. Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear” (Revelation 19:7-8).
One’s spiritually perfected form is actually female.
Christ wants a bride that is like Him. The ‘whores’ of this world (who cheat on Christ, so to speak), will be rejected, and Christ will only consummate His marriage with pure, godly brides. Following Christ is absolutely necessary. The distinction between the metaphysical masculine in Christ and the feminine of the created soul is actually showing that there is fundamentally a gap between the uncreated and created, so even if a bride is very much like Christ, she can never ‘be God’, per se, at least in essence. WE WILL BE MADE ONE FLESH when He consummates the marriage! All of humanity will be raised female. We are helpmeets of Christ.
Read the Song of Solomon. Read Hosea. Jesus Christ is your husband! The wedding is soon!
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De-Radicalisation in the name of Christ.
I imagine many of you are familiar with being on different chans, so chances are you were racist for a time, and perhaps still are, but to those ones that moved past racism, how did you do so?
I have overcome 'white pride' as that was an easy one to reconcile with the Lord (gay pride, trans pride, black pride, white pride; it's all pride and thus a sin)
But I've found /pol/ to be very alluring in its racism, and in many ways it's hard to refute what's in front of your eyes, albeit a lot of the information is sensationalised at the very least if not untrue.
I want to love more, I don't want hate needlessly, I hate what is immoral, unjust, spiteful, anything that goes against God; but I want to love like Jesus loved, but being racist still makes a lot of sense to me.
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Solving the Synoptic Problem and justifying the order of the gospels
After reading >>11387
and making >>11420
on my personal theory about the order of production of the synoptic gospels, I looked further into it and after going through a dozen academic theories, none of which seemed satisfactory, and weighing the flaws of various ordering models, I arrived at one which seemed the least ridiculous and required a minimal amount of hypothetical documents. I'm posting it here for review and feedback:
(0. Mark wasn't the base gospel as in posited in the conventional two-source (Mark / "Q") model.)
1. Matthew didn't cite Mark, which was a gospel sent to the gentile church.
2. For the same reason, Matthew likely didn't cite the final version of Luke.
3. Mark didn't cite the final version of Matthew due to major omissions of content that would have been useful for evangelizing.
4. Luke was not part of the same lineage due to shared content between Mark and Matthew not in Luke.
5. Luke didn't cite final Mark due to omissions of content (Jesus walking on water, the debate over clean and uncleanness, the faith of the Canaanite woman, and the feeding of the 4000) that would have been of interest to his audience.
6. Luke wasn't aware of Matthew, because had he been aware of it it would have negated his stated purpose in writing. In addition, his ordering of the parables and his genealogy are more informal.
7. If the final version of Matthew was available early on, it wouldn't have been necessary to write Mark. It also wouldn't have been necessary to write Luke.
8. Matthew re-organized the content of Proto-Luke with contributions from and for the use of the church in Jerusalem.
9. Mark was produced in the middle of this process: Mark's rendering of quotations is closer to Luke's but its content has events also in Matthew.
10. Only 1% of content in Mark is uniquely shared with final Luke, versus 18% with final Matthew, suggesting Mark did not have access to the resources of final Luke but did have access to the resources of final Matthew.
11. It wouldn't make sense to produce Mark after final Luke is available.
12. Luke the Evangelist obtained and revised Proto-Luke for his historical compilation with Acts.
13. Luke was finalized after Matthew; the early church primarily quoted Matthew as authoritative, not Luke or Mark.
14. Luke reportedly backtranslates well into Aramaic.
15. Proto-Luke wasn't published because it was an informal text, possibly notes for Peter's sermons recorded by Mark as his scribe.
16. The Gospel of Mark was an early informal tract sent to the gentile church, while the Jerusalem church used the same source material to generate Matthew.
17. Luke was commissioned by Theophilus to produce a more definitive account of the history of the early church that had more detail than Mark.
18. Acts includes first-person sections in its content; Luke the Evangelist may have obtained the original writings of Mark documenting his missionary journeys with Peter and Paul, up to Paul's imprisonment in Rome, in his research. Luke did not visit Jerusalem personally, which was why he was unaware of Matthew.
And that's how the ordering of Matthew, Mark, and Luke was arrived at. Matthew was the authoritative gospel of the Jerusalem church, Mark was an informal tract prepared for the gentile church, and later on Luke was commissioned to produce a revised account for Theophilus. Early church tradition notes that 50 copies of Mark were produced for a group of Roman soldiers that were interested in Peter's preaching, but it wouldn't have been a serious work for the church in Jerusalem which would have had direct access to the apostles for information. As the church grew, it prepared Matthew as a formal document.