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Anonymous 05/13/2022 (Fri) 02:45:49 No.10994
I'm not quite sure how I would start this thread, but I'll try with this: Jesus is uniting. Past countries, civilizations, borders, generations, ethnicity, race, any group of people can be united with Jesus. Rich or poor, black or white, old or young, anyone can follow Jesus. Anyone can be together with someone else in Jesus. But I have a problem. If Jesus isn't the Son of God as he says, what's the point of uniting with other people? If we're all too different, all too divided already, why not just keep to ourselves? This is the front of the problem. You see, lately I have been more interested in politics. I grew up in a Christian family and was very much a Christian in my teenage years, but falling out of my faith later on I started to look for other solutions. Creating a heaven on earth instead of waiting on earth to get to heaven. But I'm stuck. If Jesus isn't the son of God as he says he is, then humans are animals, and as animals must obey the laws of nature. That is, survival of the fittest. Tribalism for countries and races, since as animals all humans must differ from one another from which place in the world they evolved. As animals humans must be strong, not meek, to survive and live in this world. The solution would be very humanistic: to make a paradise on earth, the earth must be ruled by the strong. But if Jesus is the son of God, all humans are created in the image of God. No matter who we are, we bear his image. Jesus, the son of God, who died and rose again can unite the world. He came for everyone. Everyone, no matter who they are, can have a relationship with Him and follow Him. The solution is Jesus: he will unite the world and has a plan for anyone who chooses to follow him. I don't know who to choose. On one hand, if I follow Jesus, I can come to anyone and everyone with Him. I know what truth is, where I go where I die, and how to live (like Jesus). But the downsides are that I can't change the world. I can only change myself. On the other hand, if I choose politics, nationalism, radicalism and the like I have a chance to change the world. Maybe if I gather enough like minded people I can bring peace and happiness, without God. The downsides are that if God *does* exist, and Jesus *is* his Son, I'd be actively rebelling against him and go to Hell. Plus, if he has any plans for me I'd be disobeying him to go *my* own path and do things *my* way, not Gods way. Who do I choose? Me or God?
>>10994 >If Jesus isn't the son of God as he says he is, then humans are animals, and as animals must obey the laws of nature. are you an animal OP? if not then you know youre answer
>>10994 >I don't know who to choose. On one hand, if I follow Jesus, I can come to anyone and everyone with Him. I know what truth is, where I go where I die, and how to live (like >Jesus). But the downsides are that I can't change the world. I can only change myself. >On the other hand, if I choose politics, nationalism, radicalism and the like I have a chance to change the world. Maybe if I gather enough like minded people I can bring peace >and happiness, without God. The downsides are that if God *does* exist, and Jesus *is* his Son, I'd be actively rebelling against him and go to Hell. Plus, if he has any plans >for me I'd be disobeying him to go *my* own path and do things *my* way, not Gods way. >Who do I choose? Me or God? Choosing God doesnt necessarily mean giving up on changing the world it just means you have to abandon the traditional way of doing so and instead embrace God and His means of doing so. Revelations says that change is coming and that the antichrist will be fought against and eventually overthrown by Christ and His army, maybe you could help.
>>10994 Is your problem an apparent dichotomy between unity in the Body of Christ and ethnic boundaries? Or is it being unsure if God is real / Christianity is true? If it's the second one, you need to focus on that and ignore the rest of this reply. >Past countries, civilizations, borders, generations, ethnicity, race, any group of people can be united with Jesus. Rich or poor, black or white, old or young, anyone can follow Jesus. Anyone can be together with someone else in Jesus. >But I have a problem. If Jesus isn't the Son of God as he says, what's the point of uniting with other people? If we're all too different, all too divided already, why not just keep to ourselves? Both of these statements are correct but have different usages of the word "unite." In the first, you talk about being united in the Body of Christ. In the second, you talk about being united politically, socially, demographically and/or genetically. These are not the same thing. A problem you appear to be having is that you look at statements about being united in Christ and you are unable to conceive of this in terms other than temporal worldliness. You are only able to think about it in political or demographic terms. Your whole post screams this: being concerned with the natural rather than the supernatural. But now you may be falling into another trap. You may think, "Well if the kind of uniting Christians talk about is merely spiritual then that's fine. It doesn't threaten my other beliefs so it can have a place over there in the corner." In other words, you may start thinking that being united in Christ is a lesser kind of uniting almost to the point of being a platitude. This is wrong. Our union in Christ is greater, more important, more real than any worldly union including ethnicity. I specify this in particular to counter a temptation in my own mind You must understand that it is not our union in Christ that is the small thing in the shadow of our ethnic and political differences but the reverse. In order to gain this understanding, you must free yourself from the chains of materialist thinking and start considering the supernatural. As long as you're always thinking in terms of "What implications does this have on society?" instead of "What implications does this have on our souls?" then you're missing the point. >Creating a heaven on earth instead of waiting on earth to get to heaven. Are you the guy who was asking earlier about how to bring the Kingdom of Heaven to this world? I made a reply in the old QTDDTOT (not in the extra thread you made) but you made no reply or comment. The thread is gone now and whoever archived the site in March didn't archive that thread but my point was to the effect that the Kingdom of Heaven is already at hand. It's already seeping through the cracks of this world. By aligning your will to God's (and in as much as you do so), you can be a participant in that process. That's the short version. >to make a paradise on earth, the earth must be ruled by the strong. Is this really true? What's a paradise and how does the strong ruling over the weak bring that about? This is not a rhetorical question. I'll assume that by "strength" you mean not just physical strength but also cunning. But do you mean moral strength as well? Think carefully before you answer lest you contradict yourself. >On one hand... >On the other hand... How many times do we humans have to fuck up before we realise that utopias are a lie? Every utopia becomes a dystopia inevitably. And before you say, "But muh National Socialism worked fine until the rest of the world ganged up on it," National Socialism got destroyed a little over a decade after it gained power. It scarcely got a chance to show how it would turn out. Look at any so-called utopia that lasted more than a generation. >That wasn't real utopia! Real utopias haven't been tried yet. First of all > Secondly, what makes you so sure yours will be different? The great mistake of the Americans is thinking that if they design a clever enough system then everything will be well. They thought, and still do think, that a particular system of governance will be able to counteract people's negative tendencies. the fault is not entirely on burgers since they learned this from European philosophers of the time but nobody has bought into it quite like they have The problem is not the system though. The problem is people and the fact that we keep choosing to do evil rather than good. This applies to both the ruled and the rulers. No man-made system will ever be able to solve this. The proof is in the last four centuries or so of failure.
>>10994 Giving up Christ will ensure you break yourself and the world. Accepting Christ will ensure you save yourself and save as much of the world as could have been saved by your intervention.
Pain and suffering cannot be cured with social or practical programs. This is the whole premise of ecumenism. The nation of Israel perished everytime they left God. In Egypt, no matter what policy the pharaoh took up to counter the success of Israel, he kept falling further and further. God is not an option that you can choose if you want Him, and if you don't want him you can just sort things out on your own using "natural" and "rational" projects.
>>11075 >The great mistake of the Americans is thinking that if they design a clever enough system then everything will be well. And the most obvious issue in that line of thinking, is that any system without God at the core is not clever at all. >Romans 1:22 - Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools
>>11093 That's exactly right. God has already done something about our evil inclinations. We just have to say yes. We must agree to allow God to do something about our selves. We must co-operate with His will. The unfaithful say, "Why doesn't God do something about evil?" and then erect their own Tower of Babel. It's astonishing. They think that they can do better than God our creator. They complain about their disease but reject the cure. Had a read through Wisdom 2-3. Very interesting and pertinent to our times. There really is nothing new under the sun.

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