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ICUP 7 General Thread CLERMONT FOOT 63 Board owner 02/25/2022 (Fri) 22:38:22 No.2934
[this OP has been re-written to keep the conversations in one place] Welcome to the Infinity Cup 7 tournament! This cup will consist of 32 competing teams, playing 3 matches each in the group stage to qualify for the knockout final games. The 32 participating Infinity Cup teams are: /2hu/ - /a/ - /ac/ - /art/ - /bmn/ - /britfeel/ - /christian/ - /cuckquean/ - /dup/ - /egy/ - /eris/ - /fascist/ - /film/ - /fscchan/ - /islam/ - /ita/ - /japan/ - /k/ - /kind/ - /late/ & /comfy/ - /leftypol/ - /loomis/ - /monarchy/ - /monster/ - /otter/ - /pro/ - /retro/ - /server/ - /sp/ - /sw/ - /v/ - /yuri/ Additionally, an friendly invitational match and a bonus match for the winner will take place between guest teams /soy/ and Frenschan after the matches of Round 2. Round 1: Saturday 20 August & Sunday 21 August SEE >>4166 Round 2: Saturday 27 August & Sunday 28 August Round 3: Saturday 3 September & Sunday 4 September Finals: Saturday 10 September & Sunday 11 September All these times could change.
Edited last time by grassstains on 08/16/2022 (Tue) 06:12:59.
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>>4545 >>4544 Thank you mate I have updated the wiki to include the results of all matches, but it would be nice if someone else could put a link to the archives of the games. This is how the knockout stage looks like (assuming we're not doing random draws).
>>4546 >/bmn/
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>>4546 >forced to play against /eris/ on the quarterfinals if we win against /cuckquean/ it was nice knowing you all
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>>4549 Thanks for pointing that out I fixed it
>>4550 I mean I edited the wiki assuming the placement was gonna be deterministic and not randomic, Grassstains is the one who chooses.
>>4519 Where is the lie?
>>4551 do random
Don't do random.
>>4561 Random you end up with some really stupid pairings, like teams from the same group playing against each other again. Do you really want to see /pro/ vs /yuri/ again? Doing it the normal way is fairer and funner I do say.
>>4563 that's the point desu
>>4569 Well it's not really a point
I prefer to see matchups that we haven't seen before, instead of more replays. So no please don't do a random draw.
Random draw is more work for me, and allows a (non-grand final) rematch. I am satisfied with the sorting method that the lovely wiki friend has implemented. It seems most of the few people voicing an opinion are in favour of deterministic draw, so at this point in time, we will be running the finals as shown in that image.
>>4573 Thank you, Grassstains. I chose the traditional sorting method from old World Cups, with paired groups. Technically I should have ordered both of them A to H but since I was also editing each group it was just more convenient to keep track of everything (and it doesnt really change anything as far as match-ups go).
>>4579 >Technically I should have ordered both of them A to H time to do it again
>>4582 Please don't
what time are the next games
>>4582 But it doesn't change anything, just the way they look on the Knockout stage page. My autism is strong but not that strong.
Can we get a schedule?
For those that didn't guess: Saturday 10 September 18:00 /egy/ vs. /christian/ 18:30 /pro/ vs. /a/ 19:00 /eris/ vs. /server/ 19:30 /v/ vs. /cuckquean/ 20:00 /late/&/comfy/ vs. /dup/ 20:30 /retro/ vs. /ita/ 21:00 /monarchy/ vs. /yuri/ 21:30 /japan/ vs. /fascist/ 22:00 Wooden Spoon match - /fscchan/ vs. CLERMONT FOOT 63 Sunday 11 September 18:00 Semifinal 1 18:30 Semifinal 2 19:00 Semifinal 3 19:30 Semifinal 4 20:00 Final 1 20:30 Final 2 21:00 Third place 21:30 Grand Final 22:00 BOSS FIGHT
What were today's results?
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>>4648 politics and nations btfo
Can someone else record the chat for today? Just in case my Internet shits itself today
>>4653 how was the chat recorded either way? do you set up OBS to record that part of the screen? where is it uploaded either way?
>>4655 Screen recording with ffmpeg
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Infinity Cup 7 is now complete! Congratulations to /eris/ who joins the ranks of champions as they defeated /japan/ 3-1 in the Final! Stay tuned in the following weeks for the award winners. Thank you to every anon who chipped in throughout the Cup, and thank you especially to all the anons who took the time to tune in. We'll see you in the next one!
>>4697 So it really is over, huh What do we do now?
>>4697 Congrats /eris/, you chaotic fucks, on your victory in the tournament!
So I have a question for the head rigger. You mentioned you'd want to change games from PES17 to PES18. Will all the models and edits be automatically moved to that engine with no issues at all? Also, are there any difference in strategies/player cards with PES18? Because if that's the case, not only do we need an updated wiki, but also to notify all managers/boards who will participate that they need to revise their strategies. Additionally, I would suggest that friendly matches have 5 subs per game just to keep things entertaining. >>4698 We let /eris/ bask in the limelight and prepare for the next one, duh
Please give us the archives for the last matches of the group stage and the knockout stages
>>4705 would also like to know ASAP what game we are moving to and how difficult it will be to import models into it
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>>4717 Why are we converting assets into PES18 again? I've been comparing the former with PES17 and I genuinely don't see any reason to update. Graphical wise, the subtlety of PES17's graphics are gone in 18, where every player is incredibly bright, the grass is neon green and the stages look plastic. Moreover, the choice of porting or not porting would entail something like this: Keeping PES17 >new models and stadiums are added on the previous ones Porting to PES18 >time is spent porting the old addons to the new game, little to no time to add anything else So far the only big update to PES18 is that hands finally work. You'll better give me a bigger reason to make us believe we need the newer game.
>>4720 Probably some gameplay changes? I recall PES14 having huge issues with players running into offsides off of a long throw from the goalie, I imagine 17 has issues of its own. Or probably it's because the entire modding scene changed from 17 to 18, which is incidentally what most of the 4chancup modding tutorial are for. I dunno it feels a little random as a change, but the head rigger will do as the head rigger wants.
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>>4722 however you would put it it still makes no sense to convert to PES18 since we saw no major gameplay issues during any game. whatever major rigger has in mind must be the same most modders have when jumping ship to the newer game regardless of its quality (Sims 3 to Sims 4 or FO:NV to FO4)
>>4723 I dunno, at least the old export isn't going anywhere, so if it turns out it's more work than it's worth we'll probably just go back to 17. With PES it's not even that big of an issue if you're stuck on older games, practically all versions have an active or at least comprehensive modding community.
>>4724 I would need to hear the final say from the head rigger though, lets see if he manifests himself
>>4723 >since we saw no major gameplay issues during any game. conventiently forgetting how /k/'s goalie went innawoods at halftime. twice.
>>4727 How toes PES18 prevent this issue?
>>4727 Those hiccups were due to the way PES handles modded player data. The gameplay hiccups concern strange behavior like fouls (not) being whistled on random occasions, or players being out of position for no reason or tactics being followed in only a vague and general sense. Though I also disagree with the decision of switching over to 18 unless porting 3d assets is a quick patch away.
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Proposed logo and banner from /eris/
>>4761 hilarious
>>4761 I did not expect that logo
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>>4761 I might be Pope Grassstains and I approve of this message.
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I've been away for a long time, not even looking at the board. So I've got a bit of reading to do and I might say something that is answered/contradicted by something you wrote already because I didn't see it. I had some IRL big life events and changes immediately after the cup that took up most of my time post-cup, combined with massive burnout and a few minor things pushing me away from the webring imageboards. One more, I'd like to give a special shoutout to many people. Too many to list have contributed artistically and they all know who they are, but a special extra thanks for OneAnon (who helped enormously and long-term for non-tech organization, things like wiki, contacting people and boards, antispam), all the people who helped with the wiki, the /v/ aesthetics manager who stepped in to help reduce the load, and to the commentators Ox and Solomon who were often helping me while scrambling around for working streaming platform, as well as guest commentator Kimeemaru. In many ways, ICUP 7 was a clusterfuck of awkwardness, technical fuckups and unnecessary replays, but without those people it would have been far worse or not even gone ahead at all. I haven't made any plan for another cup, and I can't do the same crazy effort again, but I've come back to say I am happy to help organize, or if necessary run, another cup. But I absolutely cannot see us running one that big with the current volunteer base. 32 teams is just way too big for such a volatile, sparse league when there's just 1 or 2 technical volunteers and very few non-tech volunteers to take the pressure off by handling team strats, comms and wiki. And for the record, some of that is on me for not delegating not-so-technical stuff like image resizing to volunteers. I did make a big yell and shout about porting models to PES18 but unless other people have the capacity to do it (plural, because you will burn out if you're doing it alone in less than a few months), it's too much time to change something which, while not ideal, isn't actually broken. Which does bring me into something important: explaining, understanding, why the last cup was as broken as it was, so that it doesn't happen again: >me trying to reach an arbitrary deadline instead of delaying a month or two to properly test I was eager to do a summer cup, we were excited, and I did inadequate testing. Hosting is different to checking locally, and one test stream isn't good enough. Especially considering entire parts of the save were uprooted, we were using new stream hosts and we had 32 teams in auto-management. >chasing up and respecting dead teams We're in a tough position. We basically have more teams than viewers, and almost all the teams only have 0 to 3 fans. Then you have ones like /soy/ who were VERY hyped and then didn't even show. >limited volunteers/overload We tried to bring more people in to volunteer, to the point I felt I was spamming, but there's only so much we can fight the 1:10:100 rule of content creation and we don't even have 100 viewers. It's a fact until viewers at home decide otherwise and I've come to terms with it. Reducing workload will be easier this cup, but is still something I need to keep in mind as I have a bad habit of trying to do everything. something something hail eris. >fatigue I was doing the Stu Pickles routine for 4 weekends in a row. Doing 5 hour streams is also not ideal. That's a recipe for me misreading strats and getting replays of replays. In light of that, I think if we want to do a new cup: >stay on PES17 for the next cup, and indefinitely until we have the manpower to upgrade >don't be in a hurry to reach a dumb deadline like this winter >cull teams, harshly. it will be easier since many of the teams are already made and their userbase just won't even try to change strats. if we can get down to 16, that's perfect. even if we can't, for some reason, an asymmetrical group stage is better than dead games. (By the way, that doesn't mean no new teams, it means letting go of dead/zombie teams, even if just for this next cup) Let me know what you think, and let us all know if you can help with anything.
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>>4914 Oh hey, you're back. Hopefully you've got a well deserved break after that huge load of work with the previous cup. If you're planning to reduce your role on a tentative new cup, overhauling the tutorials in the Infinity Wiki would help to introduce anons to volunteer and help you out, or at the very least point them to the pages that are already within the wiki. IIRC the modeling pages were the most sparse in spite of demanding a tremendous amount of effort on the 1~2 blenderfags. If anything, someone should spend some time in writing those tutorials so that anyone interested can be told to do it himself. It's more than clear that workload isn't humane for a single person in such a short stretch of time, so I'd advise to help prevent it form occuring again. On those questions at the end of your post: >stay on PES17 for the next cup, and indefinitely until we have the manpower to upgrade I'm not seeing the leap either. I don't mind PES17 for another cup. What's more, I rather PES17 over PES18 in the graphical department. Besides, there's a lot more work to do than say just porting models over, right? Let's call it off indefinitely. >don't be in a hurry to reach a dumb deadline like this winter I wouldn't like it this Winter either, though I wouldn't rather if we had to wait one entire year for the next cup. How about somewhere in May? It's not the long wait for August yet it's not as early as say, January or February. It might also give some leeway for anyone interested to make a sizeable contribution to the cup over say, two months from now. >cull teams, harshly I wasn't exactly thinking of culling them, but if it does help everyone involved I'll have it. In any case, whether it's reducing or maintaining the amount of teams on the cup, there were some serious issues regarding the last competition's roster of teams. For once it's true than, other than for the first few streams, there were more teams than there were viewers. On the ICUP7 teams themselves, one thing that's stood out to me is that, out of all 32 teams and 33 boards represented, 12 (11 if we're excluding /fascist/) of them were anon.cafe boards, that's more than a third of all teams. Rather conspicuous when we're talking about a site that beraly attracts numbers even in contrast to other sites on the webring. Another issue I found with the roster were the regional teams, who (other than /ita/ having a dedicated stream) saw limited interest in anyone chipping in throughout the cup. Makes sense, since the scope of those teams is limited to the country they represent. If there was another cup and I actually tried to make an effort to draw in a large number of anons I'd both focus on boards on the biggest sites of the webring (I'd say smug, zzz, sportschan and plw) and seasoning the cup with the odd team here and there (/eris/ for example); and remove that first come first serve mentality that plagued most of the reasoning in choosing teams. There were plenty of bizarre decisions made by the riggers on the previous cup that I doubt made sense to anyone that was watching it. It's hard to believe that no one could renew /librejp/ (that's a sizeable, distinct regional population of the webring) because /fscchan/ (literal-who board that's not even from the webring whose only commitment to this cup was writing "ok ok" when asked if they wanted their team renewed) had to get it; that /lego/ (that still has the best team in all of the cup) couldn't come back because the board is dead yet /islam/, /film/ or /sw/ made the cut; or that /bane/ (baneposting was a staple on 8ch and would have been a popular team in ICUP7 in spite of the board having reallocated to tvch and thus becoming shit) couldn't bring in friends and yet /egy/ could get in; etc. I'm doubtful you could justify all of these decisions and yet stil claim you wanted big numbers on the stream with a straight face. In between 32 and 16, if you're going ahead with trimming teams, try to go for 24, kind of like ICUP5, and place in teams in friendlies for those who throw a shitfit when the team they had submitted for a board that only one person uses wasn't chosen to be competing (in case preparing the friendlies isn't too demanding). I believe this answers most of the points raised in your post. shouldn't you be posting this on the ICUP8 bread? move these posts there or something
Not available to help with much besides our own team and maybe explaining some beyond-basic-necessities management to interested newcoming managers, but we were screwed and want revenge, we'll be here next time. Whenever that is. Not in our nature to rush things. Agreed on your 3 points there, only thing I want to know is if you have any preference on how to present the changes and organize the team's "database" so it's easier to manage for you. I want to avoid all confusions and I understand it's not easy. So, our thread here or at home, or maybe by e-mail? Gradually, or maybe everything but models in a single .zip? Is just changing the wiki for you to check there an option? Is there anyone still helping with models and other aesthetics? Those kinda things. Next time I might try some changes, if we're gonna lose it should be my fault. Also, hi. Anime lesbians pic pending 'cause I'm at work.
>>4914 Thank you for hosting it. I know the cup ended up being a huge mess but it's appreciated that you took the lead and also because Eris demanded it :^) >>4916 The modelling pages on the wiki would require someone to dump the entire process from the 4cc wiki into those, so if anyone's willing to do it then that's fine. >there's a lot more work to do than say just porting models over, right? The only process that someone not familiar with Blender like me wouldn't have problems with is porting PES17 heads. Creating heads in PES18+ now requires to cover around the neck and I won't even mention FBM because that's just way above my level. As for the schedule, only Grass Stains can say when is the next one happening but I do agree with you that a full year is not a good waiting time. Someone else (I think /yuri/'s manager) said that it'd be great to have two events per year to keep the hype going, although that's more easier said than done. >cafe getting more boards That's partially because of how some boards have migrated here (/sw/, /retro/) and the others have appeared in previous events (ICUP6 and GCUP). >Rather conspicuous when we're talking about a site that beraly attracts numbers even in contrast to other sites on the webring Not really a conspiracy theory and also the webring as a whole has changed a lot but this is not the place to discuss this. >regional teams The regional teams were a consequence of both the GCUP happening (which SKF made because of the Autist spamming a lot of outside boards with fake invites) and the previous BO expressing interest in opening up the event, with the only exceptions being /ita/, /argentina/ and /librejp/. >biggest sites on the webring In terms of boards participating in the cup out of all of the ones on the site only Smug fits and PLW is mostly active because of /animu/ >remove the first come first serve That I do agree with you. This was something carried over from back when we were still on 8chan (the original one) and now with the webring being a thing of its own it doesn't have a point as for the other points about the rigger's decision that's a 50/50 agreement, I can talk about it more if you want >ICUP5 and friendlies I'd agree that we set 24 teams because it's a nice halfway point. As for the friendlies you're basically describing how GCUP went: first two days starting with friendlies and then moving to the actual matches. The only issue is if either the friendly teams or the official teams end up having more than 12. >spoiler I'll make a post linking to it, calm down. Plus this is also feedback from ICUP7. >>4917 >preference on how to present the changes and organize the team's "database" so it's easier to manage for you Are you referring to the PES save file? Since you mention models, the better idea would be to do what /japan/ did and make a .zip file with the folders of the respective models for each player (it'd help with thread organization and also as a backup method). >Is there anyone still helping with models and other aesthetics? For the first part only the /v/ manager, the other one not so sure. With all being said, the only two things I would like to be more strict on are: >teams have to show and keep up interest in the cup >methods to reduce the Autist's damage That's mainly one of the problems that this cup had, that he went spamming places that are not even related to the webring like /soy/. I mentioned this earlier, but here's a DeepL translation of the /mex/ thread OP. I think he's somewhat right in that we need to be more strict in keeping with the invitation rules. If I missed anything or have more things to say please feel free.

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