/icup/ - Inter-Board Competitions

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Other Sports Supporter 05/05/2020 (Tue) 21:14:06 No.16
Thread for suggesting and discussing alternate sports to use for the cup. So far, ideas include: >Wrestling (WWE 2K1X) - we could even ask 8chanmania to be an integral part of /icup/ >Basketball (NBA 2K1X games, we could edit sprites for NBA JAM >Golf (has been widely suggested in the past but I do not know how it would make for an interesting game unless the game had course editors) >Tennis (virtua tennis and wii sports have both been suggested) >Racing (similar situation with Golf, it would be kind of awkward to spectate but if the game allowed for track customization it'd be pretty cool, otherwise it's always possible to get a sprite edit in games like Mk64) Thoughts, opinions, complaints?
I think we should stick with football, the other ones seem like they would be pretty boring to watch.
For non vidya examples: >Mario Retardy (simple model or texture pack, again, would require Mario Party Planner to include custom and hilarious boards) >TF2 Bots (would be harder to setup and allow very little customization) >Worms/Worms 3D/Hogs of War (ditto but easier to follow) >M.U.G.E.N. / Rivals of Aether (would require non negative IQ to setup, the latter requires less sprites and for balancing purposes values can just be randomized) >Smash Ultimate / Sm4sh / Soul Calibur VI (requires some time to edit models or miis, the former can get a bit boring without randomness) >Fire Pro Wrestling (again, 8chanmania exclusive or alternative wrassling federation)
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>>16 Before merry mad went to shit I was trying to make a series involving a racing cup. Since you can easily make car skins and AI personalities for some titles, I was thinking of having a stream where I simulate some racing series.
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>>19 >Before merry mad went to shit What a blast from the fucking past, I can't believe the wordfilter I won over years ago is still in effect.
>golf Provided each board ends up making their own course or at least ends up getting a course made around their specifications, that could potentially be something very hilarious. Look up the "Mario's Star" course of Mario Golf and then imagine that with board culture.
>>17 Racing could be interesting as short track and/or destruction derby
>>43 >destruction derby Nice one, but what games allow enough customization for it?
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I kind of dig the idea of a custom golf game. I wonder if Wii Golf has any AI for the Wii Golf minigame + course editors? Otherwise we could make our own, but you should submit miis, of course. https://www.invidio.us/watch?v=OoAHUvnpnDs This game has quite the in-depth editor but I am unsure if it's worthy of AI matches.
>>18 >Worms Hedgewars (2D worms clone in denial) might allow for more customization (there's even potential to mod source code).
>>16 One thing we could do if we don't mind fighting games AND if we could get at least one custom 3d model per board (or even just miis) is to have a modded Sm4sh or Brawl by just replacing the models with custom ones. Could be fun to have team matches and free for alls. https://www.invidio.us/watch?v=tjqVXPVDNnk
>>115 I'd be totally up for a modelswap mod for Brawl/WiiU if the /liberty/ team had both the snekgirl and a Kirby ancapball
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Possible non-sport suggestions: >Hedgewars (fan-made Worms clone, actually good) - easy to follow, can be commentated - games last a decent (and decidable) length - lots of customization potential, including visual stuff like team uniform sprites, themes and importing images as playable maps. - not boring or inaccessible downside: no tactical input from boards >Totally Accurate Battle Simulator (or UEBS?) - looks fun and interesting - boards could plot troop locations on half of each symmetrical map (with a set budget) before the comp and then be randomly played against each other using their predetermined troop positions - appears to be reasonably moddable downside: matches can be short if the battles are too small and if you don't abuse slowmotion, I guess downside: setup time? >Age of Empires or similar could go on for too long...
I have some suggestions: >OpenRA or CNCNet Open source CnC games, OpenRA could be modded a little bit more. >AnnexConquer Anime CnC possible modification >Glest Fantasy RTS could be modded. >Spreedrunning? Maybe we could pick from a wheel a challenge for a speedrun?
>>731 Is this like a bootleg worms? TABS doesn't allow for much customization, but AoE could be interesting if we had some blenderfags.
>>739 >Is this like a bootleg worms? Yes in the sense that it's an obvious ripoff of early Worms, no in the sense that it's is not some shoddy low-quality clone or commercial moneygrab. It's a long-standing community-built (free and open source) Worms game. The visual style is an obvious ripoff and the basic gameplay is almost the same, but the game has it's own features and quirks on top of that base (and is still being actively developed). >but AoE could be interesting if we had some blenderfags For a second I forgot they moved on from the sprite era lol. I think TABS would allow customization through modding, I've seen modders making Star Wars characters and stuff. I haven't actually played it though. My main draw to it is that the boards can have actual strategic input without needing to be live managed.
if /ausneets/ win the cup Or if there's demand I'm up to make an AFL based exhibition contest as I looked it up and at a minimum the kits in the AFL games
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>>16 >Wrestling (WWE 2K1X) Is there any reason to pick WWE over a much better game?
>>742 I'd support that just to see everyone's confusion as to why the goals are half way between rugby and quidditch and why is the grass round.
>>742 Why not a Cricket Revolution game?
>>774 Is there an AEW one?
>>776 I'd say AFL as honestly tbh I'd say most of us honestly agree that Cricket is boring but it's popular because of it, as it's something you can chuck in the background of a summer barbecue whilst also being the excuse for having one
>>912 I think that was a joke, see the attached gameplay review but wouldn't 5-day banter sessions just be swell...
>>776 I lik criket
Are there any good baseball simulators? I like baseball and next to soccer it's the most entertaining to watch. It's also the game where strategizing goes a long way. Character stats are important on the field but placement, batting order, and your pitcher have a huge effect. In essence, I think if there's another Infinity Cup sport it should be the Infinity Series.
>>965 How far can those games be customized?
>>740 I don't know about TABS but UEBS has a much more active modding community https://steamcommunity.com/app/616560/workshop/
>>1027 I have never played either, but I just think UEBS just has a more public steam modding community so it looks bigger (except one of the biggest modders deleted all his stuff or something). The game dev made a tutorial to get your characters in the game which is great. TABS clearly has a powerful modding community judging by YouTube videos, they just all hide in Discord. They just released a map editor mod for crying out loud. Apart from the more realistic graphics style and importing character model guide, I don't think UEBS has much going for it. The dev seems to have abandoned the game. If modding UEBS beyond player model importing isn't too hard (I haven't modded Unity games before but it should be relatively easy) then it might actually be the better choice simply due to customization.
>>1027 Pretty sure it's dead, it only looks bigger because it's more public, see >>2030. The only real drawback for TABS is importing custom players (as opposed to using the Unit Creator mod that uses in-game assets). There's the issue of can we do it (and others have, lots of examples on youtube) but the biggest hurdle is to not make them look crap. TABS has a low-poly style. PES and UEBS won't look crap if you put a realistic model in it, TABS probably will.
I'd be totally down for racing, but I don't know the first thing about current year's racing games or how to mod them properly.
>>1242 The problem with those games might be that you actually have to play them.
>>1242 >>1344 Are there any racing games that'll just let you watch an AI play it? Being easily moddable would be a bonus.
>>1416 I wonder if it's remotely possible to mod the F-Zero X expansion kit so that you can watch a CPU-only race and each board involved has a custom track, racer, and machine of their own.
>>1417 Idk, sounds like a lot of blending.
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>>1418 Please don't make me do more Blending, guys.
>>1418 >>1420 I mean, by default there's machine and course customization in said expansion kit. Getting some drawfag to draw each board's requested racer in the style of F-Zero X might be cool though if remotely possible. If it's tough to do then Trackmania may be another possibility though.
The issue with racing games is they need to have a 0 player-mode (rare) and decent customization. The issue with custom maps is you need to teach the computer controlled cars how'to drive on a map properly. The games I know which allow custom maps (exported using Blender or other modelling tools) need you to model an path ("driveline") which basically defines a set corridor for the computer-controlled players to try and drive down. We could do 3D modelled tracks in something like SRB2K or SuperTuxKart (which would allow modding) but to be honest we don't have the man-power or time. Maybe 4chan could do it, but not us. However, You mentioned Trackmania. To me, that seems like a perfect game in terms of customization; well-documented car skin modding and an in-game track editor that any board can pick up and use! The computer-control side though is even worse than the average game, but... https://invidiou.site/search?q=ai+trackmania Two people last month, and one a couple of years ago, have made AI programs to drive in Trackmania. This is actual machine learning, not the in-game pre-determined algorithms that gamers like to call AI, these are computer players that you can train by example. The video by yoshTM made today shows an AI trained for only an hour performing competently on a new (albeit not too complex) track. This is gold. We could train it, run a multiplayer game (either repeated trial races or possibly doing a two or four-player online race) using all AI players with random (or chosen) initial seeds. If we were doing it via online, I don't know the deal with cameras in those games (since we care about all the cars). We could do it simply and just view the home board's car, or try ffmpeg magic to splitscreen it.
I would vote splitscreen, no matter how convoluted it would make things.
>>1420 Give us some tutorials you learnt from, bud
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>>1431 I don't know if it's feasible on a single computer due to system requirements of the game (never played it), but you could have 4 computers with decent internet all live-streaming an online match on their own bitwave channels. Then the host runs ffmpeg to download, render and upload the final splitscreen stream. This command will download four streams and combine them (modify this before using in any actual project, it's just a proof-of-concept prototype): ffmpeg -i https://cdn.stream.bitrave.tv/...........stream1/index.m3u8 -i https://cdn.stream.bitrave.tv/...........stream2/index.m3u8 -i https://cdn.stream.bitrave.tv/...........stream3/index.m3u8 -i https://cdn.stream.bitrave.tv/...........stream4/index.m3u8 -filter_complex "nullsrc=size=640x480 [base]; [0:v] setpts=PTS-STARTPTS, scale=320x240 [upperleft]; [1:v] setpts=PTS-STARTPTS, scale=320x240 [upperright]; [2:v] setpts=PTS-STARTPTS, scale=320x240 [lowerleft]; [3:v] setpts=PTS-STARTPTS, scale=320x240 [lowerright]; [base][upperleft] overlay=shortest=1 [tmp1]; [tmp1][upperright] overlay=shortest=1:x=320 [tmp2]; [tmp2][lowerleft] overlay=shortest=1:y=240 [tmp3]; [tmp3][lowerright] overlay=shortest=1:x=320:y=240" -preset ultrafast -vcodec libx264 -tune zerolatency -b:v 900k out.mp4 #(this would be output to a stream instead of a file in practice) Vid related is 3 random streams and the Monouncer's stream being combined live with that script. Sources with explanations: https://trac.ffmpeg.org/wiki/StreamingGuide https://trac.ffmpeg.org/wiki/Create%20a%20mosaic%20out%20of%20several%20input%20videos The issue is that you need 4 computers with good internet speed all playing and livestreaming, unless you can play multiple on one computer. I don't know how it will react if a stream has lag. But, it's possible. >>1436 Anything in particular? https://implyingrigged.info/wiki/Blender_tutorials for everything Blender, the importing into PES 2017 was learned from the DLC pages on their wiki and ours.
>>1438 I just realized that unless you need to see ghost cars, you don't even need to be in a multiplayer match. Just have four streamers play solo on the same track at the same time. Ghost cars would just make the job harder for the already braindead AI driver. So of those 3 videos of AI drivers, two of the programmers aren't sharing which leaves us with this one: https://youtube.com/watch?v=pWWjF-lneNo This one is trained for Trackmania Forever Nations (so I can test it for free!), but nothing about it is specific to that game apart from their trained model. The documentation for the AI is nearly none but it's reasonably simple and well-presented enough that hopefully it can be retrained easily. The Python code uses uinput to control the game (up, left, right keys) so it's made for Linux, but I'd guess it could be easily modified to run on Windows too. The framework itself is quite basic. It has no concept of braking, it's made for full acceleration only, so sharp corners and narrow jumps will defeat it. The current training is also simple, it currently doesn't understand dirt roads at all and has been trained for first-person view, so hopefully it can be retrained for a view where the car model is visible. That said, it is capable of finishing a race under certain conditions: it scored a silver medal on track A03 and a bronze on the third attempt of C01 (kept hitting an obstacle and then a wall). Of course, if there is a racing game where we don't have to resort to training a computer to drive for us, now would be the time to tell us.
>>1453 I made a couple of searches and there seem to be four candidates: >Grand Prix 4 >RaceRoom Racing Experience >Automobilista >rFactor 2 Customization levels on these games can be hit or miss though
>>1468 Thanks for that, it helps a lot! The biggest issue with Trackmania is that the vehicles are functionally identical making it a glorified RNG. Part of PES is the tactical side, which you can find in racing sims. rFactor [1,2] looked promising, you can allow the AI to control your car, even when online on a dedicated server. There are online tutorials for making custom vehicles and tracks with 3D models (using 3dsmax and gMotor, from what I could find) and there is a 4chan thread on /ovg/ who made it easy to find ""free"" versions that anti-virus engines don't even screech at. If having tactical input from boards is important, a racing sim is the way to go.
>>1474 So does that mean that the racing derby idea will be done with rFactor in mind? Will Trackmania be put aside then?
>>1504 The only counterarguments I can make to support Trackmania are: >I think it is intrinsically a more fun and entertaining game >modding tracks and car skins is less time consuming (not sure about importing models yet, but probably same) although you would only ever need one to two per board. So I would say, if a racing sim can be entertaining to non-racers in the same way PES can be entertaining to non-sport people, then yes rFactor would be the best idea so far and Trackmania can be abandoned. If you/anon are adamant about having splitscreen view, as opposed to broadcast style switching between cameras and views as the host decides, it would probably require [x] number of computers spectating which would make it a big deal to co-ordinate and run. Otherwise, it could easily be hosted solo. (To be clear, I'm just exploring this idea in spare time. No commitment whatsoever just yet)
>>1506 This seems like it would be neat, less opportunity for rigging, just as much competititon and 'board culture' space.
>>1540 Quick update: >rFactor 2, haven't tried any 3d modeling (and probably won't unless this generates enough interest) but can certainly make a cup of the same car with different skins (paint jobs) and AI parameters (personalities, if you will, like composure, aggression, start reaction time see https://forum.studio-397.com/index.php?threads/rcd-talent-file.52996/ ) creating a competition where boards could paint their car and choose to boost certain stats, then race. The biggest issues at this point would be entertainment and balance; if no-one overtakes in a 3 lap race, it's hardly interesting, and if stats have no effect or disproportionate effect, it's either a bad competition. There is a parameter I have boosted that makes the AI occasionally screw up intentionally, so they don't just all drive a perfect driveline forever and nothing happens. Hopefully I can find some balance.
>>1576 You should look into doing stock car/NASCAR type racing. Most games let you make the computer aggressive, the sport encourages bumping into each other, and a lot of the tracks encourage a style of racing where you're either close to each other the entire time or must draft with each other to stay with the other cars. It may not be "real racing" but it's far more interesting to watch for someone that doesn't enjoy the sport of racing already.
>>1576 >>1598 Forgot to mention that most NASCAR type games allow you to make custom art for the cars so it'll give each board a chance to design something unique.
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>>1598 >all races are on Daytona International Speedway >except the final race, which is Nordschleife in the rain at midnight
>>1607 honestly we should have tracks that match to each board for example the Mt Panorama/Bathurst Track should be /ausneets/
>>1607 Daytona and Dega would have to be on the schedule for sure but I was thinking along the lines of Martinsville and Bristol. As long as you avoid the cookie cutter tracks it'll be interesting. A lot of NASCAR games have a rival system where the AI will remember who raced them dirty and wreck that car on purpose. The last one I played kept track of it over an entire season/career. So if you dumped a guy 6 races ago he'll spend you out the next time he gets close to you. IF you can get a driver from each board it could be interesting to have them race each other. Just fill the rest of the field with AI drivers and let them go at it. The only problem is you might get one troll that wants to drive the wrong direction the entire race. I'd be willing to help out with streaming and running this.
What kind of influence do we have on racing games? With football we can make the formation, the strategy, and so on. But for racing, what is there to do? Just watch? It's worse than pron. Also, quick timed laps on small tracks could be less boring than long races on big tracks. For example, see the stadium racing in raceofchampions.com. Related video in rFactor 2 -> youtube.com/watch?v=A2DfueIGzI8 For oval racing, I think it's better something like Bristol than Daytona. The slower speeds are more forgiving when cars hit one another, so they can be more dirty, and easily recover the lost distance if they spin or make mistakes in the pits. Back on football, has anyone tried Captain Tsubasa: Rise of New Champions?
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>>1612 >What kind of influence do we have on racing games? With football we can make the formation, the strategy, and so on. But for racing, what is there to do? Just watch? It's worse than pron. That would depend on the game, but racing has its own tactical nuances which could be adjusted for each team. Cars especially have a million parameters that you could fiddle with to suit your needs.
>>1612 >>1614 We could also possibly make some interesting tracks depending on what game we choose.
>>1609 I was also thinking of Mt. Panorama for the /ausneets/, it's a good dynamic track that I believe would be reasonably interesting for non-racers due to the nearly rollercoaster-like section at the back of the mountain. I wonder what pre-existing tracks could work for the non-national boards. >>1611 >I'd be willing to help out with streaming and running this. I think that will have to be the case, as my internet is too slow to stream a decent quality video. >>1612 >With football we can make the formation, the strategy, and so on. But for racing, what is there to do? Just watch? It's worse than pron. I've only tested rFactor but mods have Talent files where you can define the AI's aggression, composure, start reaction time, etc., see >>1576
>>1623 edit: can define those traits per car
I doubt that anyone else would think that this is a good idea, but I'd love to see us try American football. I know the majority of people out there participating aren't American, but if we are just throwing out ideas, I'd enjoy that. I think that we could try to do multiple competitions in addition to just soccer, and if that is a possibility, we could try American football. Of course, if no one else finds it interesting, then just disregard this idea.
>>1809 The problem with Amefuto (sorry I just really can't shake off that name after reading Eyeshield 21) is that you'd need at least two or three threads devoted solely to explaining the game to complete newbies and Europeans. Basketball is much easier to grasp as even the more technical aspects are easier to understand. Heck, even Baseball is easier to explain away. But I would really, definitely like to see what our riggers would come up with given the chance of editing some Football game. What are some with good customization options? >multiple competitions Originally back on ye ole 8chan we wanted to make a Basketball tournament to stand out from the crowd and keep the 8chanmania as a secondary, parallel event, but the two things went their separate ways. Again, if you could give a good, comprehensive tutorial on how to edit stuff and find some guys willing to host, I'm sure we could do multiple Inter-Board tournaments.
>>1815 To be 100% honest with you, I have no idea how we could get a game to work, I'm horrendous at anything related to technology. Hell, I sometimes have trouble with unedited games. I know that I could help explain a lot of the game if anyone was willing to try it, but we would need some other people willing to edit a game to get it to work. I wish that I knew how to do it, but unfortunately, that is not one of my skills.
>>1815 >>1817 Actually, after doing some research, I found a game that might work. Key word being might, because I haven't looked too deeply into it. The possible game is Gridiron Champions, and is set to come out sometime this year. It is supposedly going to allow you to customize and recruit a full team, but I'm not sure if it would work for this kind of thing. Maybe I'm just retarded and this is nowhere near what we need, but it seems like an okay idea. Of course, we wouldn't know if it would work or not until the game comes out.
>>1815 >Amefuto I would prefer Gridiron or even Amefuto over American Football. English societies need to stop calling games where you barely kick the ball 'football'.
>>1823 I personally think that the best games to use are those you can actually mod 3d players in or have high amounts of customization to the actual players as opposed to just their jerseys. Case in point: https://invidious.snopyta.org/watch?v=QpVEQXxWVhQ
>>1840 I agree that that would be best, but I don't know about any American football games where you can do that. Of course, I seem to be in the minority in desiring an American football game, and if everyone else prefers something else, I can shut up about it.
>>1841 Madden NFL might have some modding abilities but I haven't delved too much into it for now
>>1842 That was my first thought, but Madden has pretty limited in-game customization, so I assumed that it would require some pretty heavy modding. I don't know though, it could end up being really easy.
>>1841 >>1842 >>1843 If you don't mind 8-bit, the original Tecmo Bowl has been roster edited to hell and back. Though visually I don't know much that could be done with it...
>>1868 I know that I wouldn't have any problems with 8-bit, but I imagine that most people would much rather have a more recent game than that.
Is there a cricket game compatible
If anyone wants to try their luck at NBA 2K games there's an entire forum dedicated to modding the game https://forums.nba-live.com/viewforum.php?f=107
>>97 I like this idea a lot tbhj=
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>>2069 Hedgewars seems like a fun and easy one to set up. It's free and open source so modding is far simpler. Pic related: normally CPU teams can't have flags, but we can delete the code that enforces it and recompile! Cosmetic customization examples >Hats As you can see in the picture, a hat is overlayed over the character. It can cover the whole player. I can make the base player invisible if people wanted to do full body mods (I would choose to keep arms and legs) but it's easier to just not do that. >Flags Flag at the bottom. >Grave A marker placed when a player on your team dies on land. >Colors Alliance colors chosen at start of match. >Voice In-game reactions and banter from your team. >Theme If we use a randomly-generated map, this controls stuff like background music and textures. Functional customization examples >Image-based Maps Maps to play on. <However we can make more customizations ourselves >Scheme settings We can let teams choose a modifier active in their games. e.g. /lego/ has unlimited girders, /fascist/ has each team start in a section of the map instead of randomly scattered, /otter/ could have an early or faster sudden-death water rising >Arsenal Normally there are 5 bot levels, but we can probably add one for each team. We could use this to make each team's AI forget how to use the weapons, then have teams pick 8 (for example) weapons that their AI knows how to use.

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