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Military aviation general Strelok 10/15/2022 (Sat) 19:28:01 No.42643
Making a comparison list in my wiki sandbox based on old deleted lists. What did I forget? Fourth-generation light combat aircraft compared − − − − − − − − − − − − − − − − Aircraft − A-37B Alpha Jet L-159 G-4 Hawk 200 BAC 167 FA-50 JL-9 L-15B AT-3 Yak-130 M-346 MB-339 MB-326 AMX Attack jet aircrafts compared − − − − − − − − − − − − − − − Aircraft − A-4E A-6E EA-6B A-7E YA-7F Harrier GR7 AV-8A YA-9A A-10 Su-25 Yak-38 Buccaneer Étendard IV Interdictors compared − − − − - - - Aircraft − Tornado IDS/ECR MiG-27 Su-24 F-111 EF-111A F-117A Third-generation jet fighters compared − − − − − − − − − − − − − − − − − − − − − − − − − Aircraft − F-1 SEPECAT Jaguar Mirage F1 Mirage III Mirage 5 IAI Kfir Atlas Cheetah MiG-21 J-7 J-8 Q-5 MiG-23 MiG-25 Su-15 Su-17/-20/-22 J 35 JA 37 F-104S F-105 F-4 F-5E/F F-8 XF8U-3 YF-12 Fourth-generation jet fighters compared − − − − − − − − − − − − − − − − − − − − − − − − − − − − − − − − − − − − Aircraft − Tornado ADV Typhoon Rafale Mirage 2000 Mirage 4000 IAI Lavi JAS 39C/D Gripen JAS 39E/F Gripen NG HAL Tejas F-CK-1 Ching-kuo CAC/PAC JF-17 Thunder JH-7 J-10 J-11/J-15/J-16 Su-27/30/33/35 Su-27IB/32/34 MiG-29/35 MiG-31 Yak-141 Freestyle Sea Harrier FA.2 AV-8B Harrier II Plus F-2 F-14 Tomcat F-15 Eagle F-15E Strike Eagle F-15 S/MTD F-16 Fighting Falcon F-16XL YF-17 F/A-18 Hornet F/A-18E/F Super Hornet F-20 Tigershark X-29 X-31 Fifth generation jet fighters compared − - − − − − − Aircraft − Su-47 Su-57 MiG-1.44/1.42 J-20 X-2 F-22A YF-22 YF-23 X-32 F-35 FC-31
>>42643 I cannot help with anyone, but let me ask my favourite question: would have it been too much for the technology of the time to develop fighters that are armed with 20mm autocannons in the late 1930s?
>>42684 I am nearly illiterate about pre-cold war planes but I'm pretty confident there were planes with 20mm autocannons at the beginning of WW2.
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>>42684 >would have it been too much for the technology of the time to develop fighters that are armed with 20mm autocannons in the late 1930s? What are you talking about? The late 1930s was the time when autocannons first became a mainstream armament on fighters, though they were also used in small numbers on biplane fighters in WWI. As an example the Bf 110 was introduced with twin 20mm MG/FF cannons as part of its standard armament in 1937, and the first Bf 109s with cannons entered service in 1939. Past 1940 the only major power that hadn't outfitted the majority of its fighters with cannons was the Jewnited States of Amerilards because they somehow failed to manufacture autocannons that could fit in the wings or engine of a single-engine fighter without jamming or otherwise falling apart, and all that in spite of having a production loicense from the UK for the proven Hispano-Suiza HS.404 autocannon that worked fine in the Spitfire Mk.IIb and elsewhere.
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>>42704 >>42780 I forgot to clarify: a fighter with an armament of only 20mm autocannons. I imagine there would be problems with the ammo capacity and the overall RoF, but I'm not sure how severe would those be. >Past 1940 the only major power that hadn't outfitted the majority of its fighters with cannons was the Jewnited States of Amerilards Funnily enough, it was the Japs who showed them how this could have been solved simply by upscaling the Browning machine gun: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho-5_cannon And then they kept upscaling it until they had a 37mm autocannon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho-155_cannon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho-204_cannon
>>42785 >ammo capacity Weight and drum magazine constraints prevented cannon-only planes from entering service prior to 1942-ish, though most of those early models were extremely sophisticated Soviet refits of old stock like the I-153 biplane and the I-16. >RoF The RoF of early WW2 20mm autocannons was workable if not great, what they suffered from were questionable ballistic profiles owing to low shell velocity and cannon/munition design deficiencies which were corrected over the course of the war.
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To what degree can modern day IR cameras serve as a limited radar "replacement" on aircraft and land or ship-based AA systems? Stealth being a meme aside there's no way to ever truly "hide" the emissions of an active radar on a 5th generation fighter even if said fighter had the RCS of a Chinese benis, and there's also no way not to make a plane glow brightly on infrared because jet engines and aerodynamic friction.
>>42910 IMO FLIRs, even if they are a halfmeasure, are the most obvious answer to stealth tech. I suspect that the U.S.' autistic obsession of neglecting the technology, to the point that Europe and even Russia have surpassed them by over a decade in the field, is because they fear that IR-sensors to equivalent technological level to the rest of the US military technology could seriously compromise stealth planes' air dominance if it leaked through exports to allies.
Why was there a big outrage over the F35 last decade but as of now has apparently vanished? You never hear about the F35 anymore besides crashes. https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2022/10/20/air-force-f-35-fighter-jet-crashes-in-utah-pilot-safely-ejects/ Is the F35 really incompetent and ineffective? Is it a liability? Was it worth the cost? Why or why not? Why did the Airforce stop building F22 jets and embarked on the F35 program? If the F22 is so much better than the F35, why build the F35 at all? Why not keep building F22s and use an older jet for air-ground targets?
>>42920 >incompetent and ineffective? Well it uses touchscreens for controls which have pilots hitting the wrong 'button' 1/5 the time. Stealth ability is gutted by wing mounted weapons because the the bay's ability to hold weapons is uncertain. Fuel is corrosive due to additives to allow it to be used as coolant and needs temp controlled storage. The airframe can only handle <3 g's making carrier launches damaging and thrust vectoring worthless. VTOL capability melts flights decks unless reinforced. >Is it a liability? With the number of crashes and excessive fuel storage requirements, I would say yes. >Why stop building f-22's? Corruption I bet. The tooling was destroyed so it's final. >Why? It was supposed to be a F-16 replacement but everything got fucked up. Scope creep was the big issue, just kept adding capabilities until it became a giant mess. It is also likely that the airforce siphoned off funds for a new jet; they've already publicly disclosed they're working on one.
>>42927 So the airforce is already trying to replace the f35?
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>>42928 Yes, the program is Next Generation Air Dominance (NGAD). It started in 2014, 3 or 4 years into F-35 development. The damning reports of the F-35 were published in 2016 so the issues were known earlier than that. So the airforce either knew the F-35 was garbage from or they wanted more funding for NGAD then what they got. Either way it's clear the airforce's main attention is not on F-35. https://archive.ph/nwRcR - 2019, airforce wants NGAD fast tracked https://archive.ph/8vLEI - 2022, working prototype https://archive.ph/e9TAB - 2022, the project never officially entered engineering and manufacturing development stage despite a working prototype The F-35 is effectively dead, it's still stuck in development and could be replaced in a few years. Note the images are just mockups, the plane is still a secret as far as design goes.
>>42930 So then, would you say an F35 is a PS Vita of modern engineering?
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>>42930 >It started in 2014, 3 or 4 years into F-35 development. Strelok, the JSF program began in 1992 and the first prototypes flew in 2000. >>42951 <comparing the F-35 to the PS Vita A more apt comparison would be the 3DO, CD-i and game.com if we're talking about the first batch of F-35s to enter service back in 2015, whose most famous feature was an ejection seat with a 100% chance of neck injury and a 23% chance of death upon ejecting.
>>42930 >F35 is effectively dead Until they officially announce production is over, that is simply not going to happen. And they still are producing the accursed thing replace their aged fleet. As for the NGAD it would be a miracle alone if it managed to be anything more then an idea 10 years from now. And rushing things too badly will no doubt just lead to another f35-tier fuckup where the plane is a jack of all trades shitshow that cannot effectively accomplish any mission. Then just like the F35 "data fusion" or overpriced flying data server is all it will be capable of.
>>43060 >As for the NGAD it would be a miracle alone if it managed to be anything more then an idea 10 years from now. They should just upgrade and rebrand F-22 into NGAD-22, re tool, collect that fat R&D check and call it a day. There, I just saved them trillions of dollars and three broken necks. Now they can invest the money into something fun like an ekroplan battleship
>>43077 They should just authorize the production of the YF-23, which is superior to the F-22 for today's FLIR-focused aerial battlefield. NorGru has confirmed the tooling for it still exists and all of the important systems from it that are obsolete are upgradable to current standards because the thing uses F-15/F-16 avionics and computers. Just give it the F-15EX upgrades and call it a day.
>>43092 >F-15EX I'm still mad they omitted canards and TVC.
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>>43127 You and I. bro, forever.
There was a post from an American on 8/k/ a long time ago in which he said that modern radars use different wavelengths to the WWII ones. He said it was due to the need for greater resolution to guide missiles etc. which came at the cost of inferior detection. He speculated that a computer programme could one day be made that would combine the information from different wavelengths to get the benefits across them and that this would lead to the end of stealth. Any thoughts on this? Any advice for further reading?
>>43323 Intuitively, it would lead to the end of stealth as a passive system maybe, but the person trying to be sneeki breeki just needs to dampen (slow down) or stop the frequency to deny the radar since radars still rely on echolocation principles. It just means stealth will increasingly become "smart dampening" systems more geared towards misinforming the enemy about your location rather than denying it outright in most cases. Such a system still requires someone autistic enough to code it and someone autistic enough to fund it, and there's no such thing as a perfect program.
>>43323 It will not mean the end of stealth, it will mean the revival of passive guidance missiles. You can hardly fit multiple appropriately sized antennae for composite bands on a fighter sized plane it would be impossible to fit them on an anti-air missile.
>>43353 >passive guidance So long-range IR missiles that depend on redundant flexible datalinks between allied aircraft/SAM sites/ships/fellow missiles should the plane they were launched from die before the missile can acquire lock on target by itself?
>>43371 Yes.
>>43371 That's pretty much how things work already, most active-radar AAMs/SAMs have detection ranges in the neighborhood of 10-15 miles and rely on datalinks or SARH for anything past that.
Could divebomber drones work?
>>44117 It can be and essentially suicide drones are both the plane and torpedo portion. Being the payload is great since it is fine if a cheap suicide drone hits the target or not, simply for the fact that it can cost much more to shoot it down. A much more expensive, dedicated attack drone that has to survive the trip loses the advantage masses of cheap drones have. Especially since it has to put itself in harm's way to drop in altitude to hit the target then while being attacked get out.
>>44117 Sure, but like >>44131 pointed out drones lose a lot of their advantages like that. The closest proxy I can think of for the best of both worlds would be a "mothership" drone that releases swarms of suicide drones at very high altitude directly above the target so that suicide drone clusters have the best chance of avoiding non-advanced AA. Think something like the ayylien mothership from that bonus mission in Star Fox 64.
>>44140 That makes me want a FASCAM-style indirect fire munition that scatters drones instead of mines
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There is a new 'merican bomber called B-21.
>>44468 They go all in on the "stealth" part of it, but I doubt they'll actually use it to truly penetrate modern air defenses for fear of being shot down.
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Has anyone tried mounting a physical counter to ASAT missiles on a Satellite? Pic related when?
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>>44491 >pic >pic-related
>>44476 >>44468 It's literally just a cheaper B-2
>>44515 >just I mean, if you consider 60% increased range to be 'just', then sure.
>>44520 Given that the main reason it's cheaper to make and operate is its smaller size I'll believe it when I'll see it.
>>44524 Strelok, while I'm with you on not believing much out of the US Defense Industry, we know what the Raider's engines are and we know the theoretical maximum weight limit of the airframe based on the fact it has a monopole main landing gear, we also have unconfirmed but reliable reports on the bombload (approximately 35,000lb), while also having a rough estimate of its physical dimensions (and therefore lift, loading, et all). Given these, a 60% increase in range over the B-2 Spirit is neither reaching nor even that impressive. If they fail to get at least a 40% range increase, it will be comical. That being said, aircraft aren't my thing, so I'm not relying on my numbers here.
What's the point of long range strategic bombers in the current year? (aside from feeding MIC) An ICBM or intermediate range missile seems more effective on all facets. I guess the bombers can be used for benign virtue signaling at your enemies borders whereas flying missiles are strictly business. Or is there something else?
>>44539 A bomber is mobile and has the option to loiter or change trajectory before attacking. Missiles are stationary (sitting duck "use it or lose it" targets) and very much a "digital" yes or no decision. The primary advantage of a bomber is readiness in the event of a "first strike" (nuclear or conventional) whereas an ICBM's life or death will be determined by the number of missiles the enemy uses in such a scenario. Basically missiles are better against non-existential threats, but bombers are key in regards to existential threats.
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>pic related chosen to replace the UH-60 It won't be as bad as the Osprey, r-right?
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>>44556 >Missiles are stationary Are they really though? Only a handful of airbases is equipped to operate strategic bombers, fewer than than the number of ICBM silos I'd guess, and those are primary targets in a first strike all the same. >Basically missiles are better against non-existential threats lol u wot m8? Nuclear missiles are a textbook definition of existential threat.
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>>44560 Honestly, what is wrong with the UH-60? Sure, it's an 'old' airframe at this point, but it a proven one. It's not like the americucks are invading countries with a proper air defense network on a regular basis
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UK, Italy and Japan team up for new fighter jet https://archive.ph/2nvCs >The nations will develop a next generation fighter - due to enter service in the mid-2030s - that will eventually replace the Typhoon jet. It is hoped the new Tempest jet will carry the latest weapons. Work on developing it is already under way - with the aim to create a combat aircraft that will provide speed stealth, use advanced sensors and even artificial intelligence to assist the human pilot when they are overwhelmed, or under extreme stress. It could also be flown without a pilot's input if required and could be able to fire hypersonic missile.
>>44632 so, a pipe dream
>>44633 And by the time it's supposed to be ready, I'm sure you could buy enough drones for the price of a single new jet fighter to blot our the sun over a town.
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>>44632 >artificial intelligence to assist the human pilot when they are overwhelmed, or under extreme stress. Where have I seen this before?
>>44637 I see you are a man of culture.
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>>44637 Im waiting for the usaf to finish with their ai pilot replacement so we can have ace combat.
>>44539 Promoting gay rights in Ukraine no, seriously, there's the psychological factor of the enemy having a large portion of their nuclear arsenal invulnerable to a first strike and loitering at the edge of your airspace, especially since it can also carry conventional weapons and do tactical strikes on your border air defences without giving you enough of an excuse for going M.A.D.).
>>44637 It looked better in the cartoon, the 3DPD profile reveals to many draggy points.
>>44667 Considering how the whole Donbass escapade was escalated into the current situation due to a single British warship showing up at the Sea of Azov, I have a feeling the Russians would be quite a bit unhappy if the US decided to have a fleet of bombers loitering on the western border.
>>44665 Isn't it possible that the recent airshow accident with the P-63 crashing into a B-17 might convince some senile billionare boomer politician to demand that the F-35D/F-22C/F-15SEX be outfitted with a fully enclosed cockpit that has the pilot lying in a semi-prone position hooked up to a 6 million dollar VR rig with an AI that monitors his EEG and adjusts his inputs based on that data so he can operate the plane entirely through a HOTAS?
>>44672 >bed force But it doesn't rhyme
>>44681 >peers up over the counter >wipes away the cheetos dust Yes? I'm here for the Air Force? Is this the sign-up?
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Well /k/, what do (You) think caused this? Off my thumb I suspect >mechanical failure of the forward fuselage lift fan >flight computer error/sensor malfunction leading to a reduction of thrust in the lift fan in order to "correct" the plane's pitch >Pilot training adjusted to modern sensibilities >Terry's revenge from beyond the grave >Russian hackers made in China >insurance scam
>>44951 Its working as intended. Its how they reproduce, they lay eggs by nosediving into dirt, then these eggs hatch as government contracts for replacements.
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>>44951 Aren't these type things always an accumulation of a (usually long) series of little issues/mistakes that quickly snowball into a FUBAR situation? Had any one of the contributing factors been corrected along the way and the outcome would have been different. As to (Your) question, I'd say the primary failure was a sequencing/timing fail in the control software. Probably some type of improper recovery routine from an overrun of data in a hard-realtime environment. >delayed ejection Lol. I can only imagine the pilot's state of mind >Sweet, another 10/10 landing >Waitwat!? >WFT*^&%$#%^^%^@!!1111111111 >AUUUGH!!!!!!! >FUCK THIS I'M OUT >>44966 Weren't you that anon that wrote the refurb spec on that last deployment (We) did?
>>44976 >>delayed ejection By the look of things he was waiting for the plane to move in such a way that his ejection was as upwards as possible. As soon as both rear wheels were on the ground he popped it. Zero-zero ejection is pretty sketchy, and doing it at a 30° angle doesn't make it any easier.
>>44977 > Zero-zero ejection is pretty sketchy, and doing it at a 30° angle doesn't make it any easier. Yep, (You) are clearly correct -- I recant. Pilot was Iceman tbh.
>>44976 no. >>44991 if he ejected a moment earlier he would get crushed to death.
>>44951 >what do (You) think caused this? Apparently severe lack of situational alertness.
>>44632 >It is hoped the new Tempest jet will carry the latest weapons. >hoped Britain probably still has a shed full of Red Tops it wants to use up. >UK, Italy and Japan Which out of those three is most likely to fuck the whole project up when appointed 'integrator'? UK >90% of budget spent on 'consultants' and useless bureaucracy >delivered platform doesn't work due to 'cost savings' >spends 200% of original budget to make it work ten years later Italy >90% of budget spent on corruption, political infighting and useless bureaucracy >delivered platform doesn't work so faak eet let's go get cappuccino Japan >90% of budget spent on corruption, political intrigue, gashapon anime grils and useless bureaucracy >delivered platform doesn't work so buy american instead >shaemufuru disuprai >much public apology At least the Japs apologize. >>44951 I'd say four out of the six are true.
>>45828 >Japan >delivered platform works in spite of all the bureaucratic old men so the Americans buy out the IP with a clause that forces Japan to pay markup to the US for producing and deploying a weapons platform the Nips developed themselves, costs balloon so high the project is cancelled after 600 trillion taxpayer ¥ were already printed spent in favor of a """"cheaper"""" American design from Lockheeb Martini >muh public apology and affirmation to remain eternally subservient to the glorious American Empire with muffled Korean screeching about comfort women in the distance
>>45840 That could also happen in Britain. Looks like Italy is the best bet. They have the backing of international Catholicism so if USA wants the IP they'll have to buy it from Israel like the Kremlin does.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33IfCt-fAOk Watched this video on bunker busters. It was fun. Reminds you that Newton's laws are more important than fancy computer scientists.
>>46040 Finally, a valid usecase for railgun memes Depending on how much UHPC costs it sounds like we're rapidly approaching the nightmare superstructures of traditional cyperpunk. Is it soon going to be standard for prisons to have walls that you just can't get through with any kind of man-portable ordnance?
>>46043 I found a bridge study from 2016 that said at the time it was about $400 per cubic yard (so about $500 per cubic meter). Adjusting for inflation it would be about $650 per cubic meter if the price hasn't gone up more than inflation. Or in laymen's terms, roughly three times the cost of traditional concretes. Reasonable for earthquake and bunker-busting-resistant material but not exactly cheap. Makes it good for projects where reliability is more important than cost like bridges and military bunkers and maybe in natural disaster-prone areas but not for standard commercial use.
>>46047 >roughly three times the cost of traditional concretes I can see governments not using it but that's literally nothing in terms of domestic construction. It's probably still cheaper than traditional materials which are still the standard for residential and are regardless basically nothing compared to land costs in much of the west.
>>46048 There are concrete dome structures (both above & below ground) where a giant inflatable bladder serves as the support for a formed pour of concrete onto it. Once cured, the bladder is deflated & removed. Voila. I suspect that super concretes might actually reduce the costs of such domes if they can be fashioned out of less material than with traditional concretes.
>>46048 I get where you're coming from, but taking a 3000 square foot property you probably got at least 100 square meters of space taken up by building material so you're looking at minimum $70k for a home built from this stuff, bro. Special materials get expensive at scale even with discounts.
>>46054 Thats less then 30 m^2 apartment in warsaw
>>46056 The apartment is fully equipped with plumbing, electricity, and presumably amenities like a stove, fridge, and dishwasher. I'm talking about the structure alone.
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>>46054 True but special materials/additives are used against time, for example concrete/cement reaches near-peak performance 28 days after being dried/cured, it can be worked on after 7 days (if workers cure it well after it starts "sweating" the hot water), now the thing is some companies or situations don't have 7 days so they use special additives to cut time and thus all the lateral costs like insurance, machinery and such. In domestic civilian cases it usually helps with the payment of workers, for example having 3 dudes taking care of a concrete roof or cement floor for 7 days can be cut down to even 2 days only if you add a strong drying chemical, that's a good chunk of savings although if the construction boss is a jew/dumb he will have the workers do nothing or very little for the next 5 days so you get charged more for the same thing. The trick with cutting time is using the savings to work other stuff like walling or detailing curbs and such, this taking into consideration they won't have to detail the concrete/cement thing because, for example, a cement floor without any additives will take a while to dry but the sweating of the hot water and dusty particles can be used to create a natural polish which can be also painted and extra polished with acid, that detailing cannot be done with added chemicals; if they decide to not use then they will have to remove that excess liquid. As a side note, just like bricklaying, the art of polishing cement is being lost because construction workers are some of the most retarded members of society, they are hard working no doubt but they forget techniques and do not care at all to nurture themselves with knowledge; as long as something can be done quicker and without breaking their backs they will use it, and the construction masters who rather hide those cheap details with expensive masonry or wood rather than use the well-worked structural material itself as ornament. >at least 100 square meters of space taken up by building material That's really not much for construction, it is a big house for a civilian and probably would need 3 dudes working on it if most of it has air surface (aka floors or roofs) now imagine cutting down half the wages of 3 or 4 guys if you dare to pay for a couple of bottles of drying material. Even small-sized grinded gravel can work wonders with time in things like columns or beams, you shouldn't support something on top of those until 7 days have passed but small-gravel makes it stronger and you can put shit over it after 4 or 5 days. Some croatian anon posted very good info time ago in i don't remember well, i think it was /fascism/, he had good experience in the construction area and had a better idea around time and costs. The biggest enemy in construction costs is time... and the client trying to jew the structural costs and cheaping out on materials. >>46051 >giant inflatable bladder serves as the support for a formed pour of concrete onto it >pour I think you can save more money using shot concrete than pouring the cream on top, also it depends on the dome: There's thick and or irregular domes that need a strong rebar structure and then there's ultra-thin domes on catenary forces that need retarded amounts of beams and top-tier workers to build those. For example a rebar hemisphere can have some concrete poured into it but shot concrete, as in a high-pressurized hoses that splurts cement, is much more effective as it can save time and material but it needs the machinery and someone who knows what they are doing, nowadays they can be found small enough and most concrete workers know how to use it or know someone who does so you will almost always save money hiring a shooter and fixing a thin rebar than planning a perfect structure and finding a bunch of dudes who are not dumb and also are masters of jenga... only for the thing to be taken down after 14 days.
>>46054 That's literally nothing dude. It's not just still less than traditional materials, it's still less than 1/10th the price of the land. Having a house go from 110k to 140k is a drop in the fucking bucket when the land is 1.6mil
>>46060 That's gotta be a European thing, because unless the land is already developed it's pennies here in burgerland compared to the price of construction and permits. I think land outside of city limits goes for like $3,000-$4,000 per square acre (about 4000 square meters), but you gotta bribe all the officials so the house construction will run you $300k-$700k easily.
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Another one bites the dust.
>>54859 What were the zogbots up too?
>>42643 F-10X Nice. Prettiest full production jets the US has ever made.
>>54861 They were up to the ground but for shorter time than they anticipated.
>>54859 good riddance aahahahahahahahah
>>54859 This is what happens when you trade competence for compliance.
>>54859 >>54869 >>54874 They should have adopted the Convair Pogo instead.
>>54869 >>54874 The people defend this by saying that Osprey has 3 times less crashes than Blackhawk. Are helicopters just deathtraps?
>>55031 >Are helicopters just deathtraps? I thought that that was the general consensus, yeah. Looking briefly at statistics, in the US EMS heli crash rates are staggeringly higher than general aviation and happen mostly while en-route, so I assume that whatever factors lead to that apply at least as much to military birds.
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>>54991 I can't believe America tried to make their own version of the Triebflügel.
>>54859 Pretty sure I located the problem, Strelok. >Captain Eleanor LeBeau, 29 www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-66643240 The absolute state
>>55031 >Are helicopters just deathtraps? Helicopters were much harder to first engineer than airplanes and they're much harder to control. The Dead Man's Curve really hits helicopters hard, as well as any other hovering VTOL type aircraft as well. Somewhat ironically autogyros are relatively safe.
>>55071 >Somewhat ironically autogyros are relatively safe. I would presume this phenomenon is related to the fact that -- by definition -- autogyros can never get outsite the 'autorotation flight-envelope' regime? Whereas powered-rotor aircraft (AKA helicopters) easily can.
>>55087 Pretty much, yeah. The only thing that could cause a helicopter-like disaster with an autogyro would be catastrophic rotor failure. Beyond that I think autogyros are actually safer than normal airplanes. Now I don't know whether they're inherently safer or if it's mostly just a statistical thing due to there being comparatively few auto gyros out there.
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>>55092 Chinese army has a gyrocopter now. Maybe they are onto something? Larger helicopters will get shot down by AA either way so the only reliable way to use them now seems to be as a air jeep .
>>55093 >Chinese army has a gyrocopter now. That's kind of neat, That's the first new military autogyro in quite a while now isn't it?
>>55093 >>55095 Speculation I've seen thinks they're intended as a terror weapon against civilians, quite likely their own. The official payload (which is very optimistic) limits their ability to transport equipped men in any meaningful quantity, but it's perfectly capable of dropping nasty stuff on civilians without rapid firing rifles. The alternative theory (which isn't necessarily mutually exclusive) is to pad the military's number of air vehicles/helicopters on paper with a bunch of cheap shit.
>>55098 >pad the military's number of air vehicles/helicopters on paper with a bunch of cheap shit. Alternatively, the so-called 'cheap shit' in general is much more durable, much more reliable, and -- importantly -- much more replaceable, than the Globohomo-tier (((expensive))) shit. The latter typically take a mountain of jewgold to even operate nominally, along with a small army of men involved in maintenance and logistics (typically even for a single advanced vehicle). As the Soviet Union has shown the world repeatedly, quantity has a quality all it's own.
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>>55100 Quantity only maters if there's any use for it. It can only lift 560 kg (1235 lb), which the fuel, pilot, second seater, their possessions, and any weapons count against. They're so slow and highly visible the official purpose of mounting anti-tank stuff is dubious because they lack the armor or agility to not die to a co-ax or aimed fired from accompanying infantry. They're too low capacity to use as a ferry, let alone true transport. Scouting is better and cheaper done by drone, satellite, etc. . Dropping supplies to isolated troops sound nifty: ~32,351 rounds of intermediate ammo in ammo cans (going by 5.56 and US cans) or ~576 MREs. The problem is there's no way to mount pic related on one, even if it nominally has the lift capacity.
>>55101 >doesn't really anwser the primary point Ehh, this concept of 'cheaper, and a shit-ton more of them' is the way forward, as drones have clearly shown. These little tincans will find their proper place in Jew War III well-enough. Recon is the most likely IMO, with the 2nd seat operating swarms of drones from the 1st-person high overview seat. And, since they're so simple/cheap, upgrades will come incredibly-quickly once hot metal starts flying.
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>>55098 You make COIN aircraft sound like something bad. >>55101 I bet you could find a way to tie it below the hull. Also the copter can be obviously niggerrigged into a drone. Imagine half a tone of explosives on a drone.
>>55117 >Imagine half a tone of explosives on a drone. Or you could put gunpods on it and strafe whatever you want without worrying about losing anything important. A grenade launcher or a pair of heavy machine guns and a few hundred kilograms of ammo should be pretty good for hunting small groups of enemy infantry moving alongside tree lines, and you could also destroy enemy trucks and crew-served weapons with it. I'm not sure how noisy a gyrocopter is, but I can see it working as a ”terror weapon” that draws the enemy's attention away from more important things.
>>55036 I mean it could have been really crazy.
>take F-35 >remove weapons bay and mount floats instead >you can hang missile from wing, F-35 is stealth so Putin will neber know >now either add torpedo mount to floats for traditional anti-cartel operations or make the floats partially retractable so plen can go transonig under full afterburner >when engine flameout near 尖閣諸島 or South China sea plane not sink but swim, no loss >no need for airfield, carrier or reinforced pad, only body of water and pier >reduced airspeed irrelevant becuase stealth On a scale from Ukrainian aid package #666 to F-20, how hard would it be to sell this to Congress in CY+8? It worked for the Japanese in WW2 and they know best how to fight the Chinese.
>>55270 Well they are seemingly moving away from f-35, so maybe if you make it a NGAD variant.
>>55568 >F-35 Thank God it wasn't a good plane that was lost.
>>55572 The entire western doctrine stands on this fucking plane being capable of taking on the entire russian and chinese air defense system all on its own. We are so fucked it is insane.
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>>55572 You are behind the times, saying bad things about the F-35 is doubleplusnotgood and turns you into literally Putler. The new angle is that the datalink is just so fuggen fantastic that it doesn't matter if catapulting can euthanize a small guy or that putting a touch screen instead of buttons is retarded even in a civilian car, let alone in a military plane. But my favourite part is that there is the Ghost Bat now, which is described by some as an F-35 without a pilot, because it has the same datalink and can use the same missiles. In other words, it should be just as effective at chucking missiles at targets hundreds of kilometres away while being cheaper and safer. And yet the plan is that a single F-35 should be escorted by 5 or so of these drones. I mean, that can make some sense if you want to project force out at the ocean without having any ships in the area, but that seems to be a rather niche application. Against Shina you could just populate the island chains with bases that also have ground control stations and swarm the skies with Ghost Bats. Or better yet, play Macross with missiles launched from the bases. Or am I missing something?
>>55574 >Or am I missing something? They just wanted to build impossibly expensive kamikaze drones to force NATO and allies to have to spend funny money on an endless amount of worthless planes to make the F35 look good before it falls into the ocean on its own dude to a software bug.
>>55573 TBH the F-20 Tigershark with link capability would be a better choice as the workhorse of the air forces backed by more specialized planes to back it up. Surprisingly the VVS still won't go for a single engine fighter. Not sure why other than maybe they are worried about engine failures. The only prototype single engine I can think of was the SR-10 trainer. Probably just the good old nepotisim network. Surprised there's been no use of the Yak-130 in a light fighter role.
>>55611 I think its due to the difficulty in making good high end rocket engines, its a terribly difficult process and there are like 3 factories in the entire world that can make the good stuff. So using two engines lets you use something with lower specs.
So the plane was found, crashed into a field. Official reason for ejection? Bad weather. Yeah the weather was so bad that the pilot ejected and the plane traveled for a good while on autopilot. So, what could be the problem here? Diversity is not an option, that plane has 1/3 chance of decapitating you on ejection even niggers are not so dumb as to risk it for seemingly no reason.
>>55706 One possibility I've read in a random comment section is that maybe the pilot wasn't getting enough oxygen, possibly due to a scrubber malfunctioning. In that case it makes sense that he ejects, as passing out while trying to land a plane doesn't sound like a good idea. And yes, if this happened then someone somewhere most likely fucked up something.
>>55706 >bad weather Where there any thunderstorms or cumulunimbus clouds in the area? A DOT&E report from ~2017 prohibited F-35s from operating in a 20 mile vicinity of thunder. This might've gotten "fixed" but the DOT&E reports also mention engineering&supply chain issues due to all those retroactively applied patchwork fixes making both prototypes/test planes and individual production aircraft too distinct from one another. Atmospheric scrubber or other life support problems are just as likely though since the F-22 has encountered those issues a number of times.
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>>55714 Looks like there were. Jesus Christ what a disgrace.
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>>55716 Just like how the Hotchkiss Portative was not a nighttime gun, the F-35 is not a thunderjet.
Why do aircraft always have the pilot cockpit above the center of mass and not under it? It's only a few hundred pounds but wouldn't it make more sense to have the pilot underneath the aircraft to act as a counter-weight and for better visibility? Planetard so maybe I'm just missing something simple.
>>55721 Multiple reasons. >Cockpit on top allows Pilot to see upwards. Cockpit on bottom would require Ace Combat tier COFFIN display arrangement to look up, and much of the Pilot's lower visibility would be obstructed by legs+instruments unless the Pilot is in a prone position. >Cockpit on top makes safe ejection mechanism design 6 trillion times easier unless you're Lockheeb. >Cockpit on bottom makes bellylanding due to landing gear failure very difficult to walk away from. >Counterweights aren't strictly needed on the bottom when relaxed stability FBW exists. What might be sensible would be putting the Cockpit inside the plane for maximized aerodynamics and stealth, but this would then entail more Ace Combat autism with the Pilot being wholly dependent on external cameras+sensors for basic navigation but in a traditional COFFIN layout with 360° screens there'd be no need for a heavy F-35 helmet so less risk of neck injury and the ejection mechanism would also be more complicated.
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>>55721 Anon grab some crayons and draw me how you want to put a chair in down facing cockpit. And also you would lose visibility and carry space so also draw me how you want to put missiles above the wings. That said there were some bombers with 2ndary downward facing cockpit for better aiming, where the spotter was sometimes even lying flat. Glass nosecones won though
Planelet #2 here, is this? = https://web.archive.org/web/20230910200052/https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/infrastructure/a43907928/darpa-x-65-plane-maneuvers-using-only-blasts-of-air/ a complete meme or the next wundertech or just something useful that is overblow?
>>55755 If I understand the physics correctly, it's not really a meme but it's also not really wundertech. It's taking advantage of the B-2's "gliding" mechanics but in a package that's harder for conventional radar to spot. It's a slow-moving aircraft meant to be unmanned but hard to see. The compressed air directional controls allow it to perform maneuvers that would either be disorientating or create too many G's for a meatbag pilot. In theory it could serve as a prototype for a super-high-altitude drone down the line because of how it generates thrust. What will really make or break it is the price point. If the thing costs as much as a traditional jet than it's memeware, but if they can keep the costs low, say comparable to a low-end missile, then they will make perfect "disposable" loitering fighter/recon aircraft with some bomber capabilities.
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>>55725 I could make a 3D model but it would take too long. Basically something where the pilot is integrated into the "frame" of the aircraft with a slight dip below the aircraft for the legs. The front would consist of a partial viewport on the front and angled sides for upward viewing, and a small dome on the bottom for majority-viewing, and then angled mirrors around the wings or munitions would allow the pilot to see above-and-behind from the top viewports and below-and-behind from mirrors positioned at the pilot's feet. It would be initially disorienting but the weight distribution should be more even and it would give the pilot a more "full" field of view of anything that isn't directly above-and-behind him. The chair could either be secured through a baseplate mounted to the lower nose where the piloting controls + center console are, or through suspension tethers so that the pilot is partially free-floating to adjust for G-forces. The seat could then eject from the lower-dome disconnecting and letting gravity "drop" the chair through the lower viewport for safer and simpler exit rather than trying to be faster-and-higher than the aircraft post-ejection. I dunno it makes sense from a physics standpoint but >>55722 raises good points about landing.
>>55725 I mean that weapons mounted on strongpoints under the wing will reduce visibility. Sorry for being so confussing. >>55755 Aside from potentially reducing planes profile it needs to be pointed out that this shit can be used for control in low orbit or even void. So this shit is for dropping satelites.
>>55760 >The compressed air directional controls allow it to perform maneuvers that would either be disorientating or create too many G's for a meatbag pilot. So you're saying that if a pilot not clued in to the program happened to see one manoeuvring, then he'd see an unidentified object flying in a way inconsistent with and far beyond the manoeuvrability of conventional aircraft? Sounds familiar.
Wait, it would remove vertical control surfaces meaning there is nothing that could obstruct hardkill APS mounted on such a plane, meaning end of dominance of missiles and return to dogfighting Shit would be so cash.
https://yewtu.be/watch?v=9K5v3Jwz89w >the US Navy used kamikaze drones during ww1 >maybe even before the Japanese themselves started using kamikaze planes
>>56051 >WW1 *WW2 The japs only resorted to kamikaze towards the end of the war, after their navy was effectively defeated and no longer a threat to the US.
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Why is aviation discussion so dead lately? With B-21's reveal, the SR-72's development and the shit like murka's 6th gen prototype flying I'd guess the would be more vivid shitflinging all around.
>>59159 Perhaps because the board is dead.
>>59159 You need at least one planefag to start a discussion, and if no one else is doing it then you should be the one. So, tell us about all of those things.
>>59159 >burgerkikestan's 666th gen flying patty What could it be? An F-35 with an ethnically diverse Live2D AI avatar made by Facesperg?
>>59175 Likely but it's even more likely this is where the F-35's 2 trillions budget actually went.
>>59176 Are they going to recycle the YF-23's variable cycle engines and claim it as a new revolutionary design?
>>59199 Can they claim that it is after making the tax payer fund the reverse engineering of it after all the blueprints got mysteriously lost?
>>59199 This hit really irks me. Murkans had this technology since the 90s at marginally higher cost than muh bigger turbofans and now treat this shit as if it is borderline science fiction.

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