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"The more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in war." - Otamin


Russa Vs. Ukraine 21 - Kherson retreat edition Strelok 11/10/2022 (Thu) 04:40:10 No.43534
What is the goal for a peace plan, if any? Ukraine would want a Treaty of Versailles if it could and completely humiliate and destroy Russia. Russia however only fuels it by continued retreats. It seems there is growing international discontent against Zelensky's warmongering, but can Russia really bank on that in face of continued setbacks? Then there is the issue that Russia already declared swaths of Ukraine as its own before truly holding it. Does that ultimately force Russia to keep fighting until it "reclaims" now Russian clay?
Is the whole Kherson thing because shit is falling apart for Russia, or are they trying to buy time to prepare for their big offensive? If the latter, when is it likely to happen?
>>43538 Nobody knows. This could be a sign of temporary vulnerability, or this could be a sign of complete incompetence. This is why everyone wanted Russia to mobilize clear back. The only thing that is clear, is that Russia is clearly unwilling to sport high casualty reports despite needing decisive victories for confidence in their ability to fight to be restored. In Russia's defense the ground is still soft and muddy in Ukraine, and they are more focused on international affairs, but if Russia can't counterattack this winter by late December/early January, then they have as good as lost their teeth. >>43537 Right now Russia wants America to immediately cease aid to Ukraine before they will begin peace talks of any kind. It's proposed that if the world wants to avoid further war with Ukraine, they need to convince Ukraine to stop fighting (defund them), and then NATO needs to sign the draft agreement Russia proposed last December "Pull back NATO infrastructure to its 1980s borders, or give us an equivalent option of friendship like inducting Russia into NATO." Mercouris noted in his recent video that Ukraine mimics US all-or-nothing foreign strategy in Afghanistan and Vietnam.
>>43537 From day 0, heck maybe even earlier than that, Russia's plan was the complete demilitarization of Ukraine. Now, even if they are to lose everything they gained in the past ten years of war and diplomacy, they'll have achieved their geopolitical goal, as Ukraine is broke, their youth is crippled and will likely be forced to open borders to repopulate their lands and NATO doesn't have enough shiny new toys to re-arm themselves for a few years, let alone arming a country that has been more trouble than its worth. >>43539 Doesn't Russia already have a treaty of joint co-operation with NATO? Anyhow, tough luck with both of those scenarios, the only way I can see Natto agreeing to that is if for some bizarre reason Russia ceded Konigsberg back to Germany/Poland/made it into an independent state.
Russians finally took Pavlovka. A very meager consolation prize after failure at Kherson. Technically it can be used as staging ground for push towards Ugledar, which is important logistics hub for Ukrainians, so there's that.
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>>43540 >the only way I can see Natto agreeing to that is if for some bizarre reason Russia ceded Konigsberg back to Germany/Poland/made it into an independent state. Prussia will rise again
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As Swiss block ammo transfer for Ukraine, tensions with Germany grow PARIS — Switzerland has been a military neutral country since the Treaty of Paris was signed in 1815. In truth, it has in effect been neutral since 1515, taking to heart a saying attributed to the confederation’s patron saint, Nicholas of Flüe: “don’t get involved in other people’s affairs.” But arguments about exactly what this neutrality entails and whether it can be interpreted as “failure to provide assistance” have erupted over the past few days in both Switzerland and Germany after Berne, for the second time since June, last week refused a request by Germany’s Defense Minister Christine Malbrecht for a license to re-export Swiss munitions to Ukraine. Germany is finding this a hard pill to swallow, with some notable politicians threatening that Germany will stop buying weapons from Switzerland — hardly an empty threat, as Germany is Switzerland’s largest arms export market. In response, Switzerland has countered saying that Berlin “no longer respects” their political neutrality. In 2021, Germany spent CHF 123.4 million ($125.4 million) on Swiss weapons, ahead of Denmark (CHF 96 million) and the United States (CHF 90.2 million), according to Swiss ministry of the economy figures. Marcus Faber, head of Germany’s liberal Free Democratic party’s parliamentary defense group, wrote on Twitter on Nov. 3 that “if Switzerland does not provide ammunition to attacked countries, then Germany too must decouple its supply chain from the friendly confederation. In the darkest hour we need reliable partners against aggressive dictatorships.” Roderich Kieswetter, of the opposition conservative Christian Democrats and a member of the Bundestag Foreign Affairs Committee, wrote in an article published by respected Swiss German-language daily Tages Anzeiger that it is “completely incomprehensible that Switzerland does not rethink its attitude.” He said in another interview with the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung on Oct. 31 that he would support an end to weapons purchases from Switzerland. “Whoever shirks away in this situation has to accept the accusation of failing to provide assistance,” he remarked. At the heart of the dispute is Germany’s desire to send 12,400 35mm rounds (manufactured by Oerlikon-Bührle, a Swiss company which no longer exists) to Ukraine, bought decades ago to restock the Gepard air defense tanks, also known as “Cheetah” flak guns. The Gepards themselves were gifted to Ukraine by the German army, which no longer uses them, and the Ukrainians have found them very effective against Russian cruise missiles and the slow Iranian drones that have been battering Ukrainian civilian targets this fall. However, ammunition is in short supply, and Berlin had hoped to ship the rounds to Kyiv without objection. The original sales contract for the Swiss-made munitions specified that if Berlin wanted to re-sell or donate these munitions, it needed to obtain a license from Switzerland — and there is a law on the books in Switzerland that forbids defense equipment from being re-exported to conflict zones. As a result, in June, Switzerland turned down Germany’s request. The same reason was invoked in June to refuse a Danish request to send 22 Swiss-made Piranha III tanks to Ukraine. Guy Parmelin, Swiss minister of the economy, wrote to Lambrecht that “there is still no reason to respond favorably to Germany’s request to transfer Swiss war material to Ukraine.” He noted that “equal treatment arising from the law of neutrality does not allow Switzerland to approve a request for the export of war material from Switzerland to Ukraine as long as this country is involved in an international armed conflict.” Parmelin added that “the criteria for authorisation as laid out in Swiss legislation regarding war material also excludes the delivery of war material to countries involved in such conflicts.” Jean-Luc Addor, a parliamentarian from the nationalist right-wing UDC party, the biggest in the Swiss coalition government, said on Swiss radio that “if our country is still neutral then we must say no to the export of these munitions,” even if the Ukrainian government says they will serve to protect grain exports and thereby avoid a famine in Africa. Addor insists Switzerland remain uninvolved in this conflict. However, not every Swiss politician is in agreement with the strict neutrality stance. Philippe Matthias Bregy, a member of the centrist party, Centre, says “for us it’s obvious that Russia is attacking Europe in Ukraine. The Ukrainians are defending European values, and so in this particular case, the Federal Council [parliament] must give its permission.” He argues that the Swiss constitution contains an article which quite clearly states that the Federal Council has the right to do whatever it takes in its foreign policy do defend the interests of Switzerland — and in this special situation, with Russia invading another European country, it is the Federal Council’s duty to react. A motion requiring that certain countries with similar values and export rules to Switzerland should be allowed to export Swiss-produced weapons and ammunition to third parties was filed on June 7 by Thierry Burkart, president of Switzerland’s FDP liberal party. That language is pending in the Swiss parliament, but even if the motion is adopted, a possible change in the law would only apply to future arms sales. Meanwhile, Switzerland is supplying CHF100 million ($101.6 million) worth of humanitarian aid to Ukraine to help restore drinking water supplies and to repair the energy supply infrastructures that have been damaged by Russian strikes. https://breakingdefense.com/2022/11/as-swiss-block-ammo-transfer-for-ukraine-tensions-with-germany-grow/ https://archive.ph/Mgyl9
>>43545 Gotta love how Germany is royally pissing off all of their neighbors right in the middle of a recession. What have they got to hide in Ukraine I wonder? That or what dirt is America threatening to release? Also >Swiss "neutrality" lol
Hohols again started worrying about the vatniks blowing up that dam. On one hand, that would indeed make river crossing a lot more difficult, on the other hand, it looks like that would also wash away one or two of their defensive lines if I'm not mistaken.
>>43547 The dams are Damocles' sword dangling over both parties heads. They are the only permanent river crossing for launching an invasion, but whoever holds the territory along the river is at constant risk of flooding that makes the river uncrossable for 2/3rds of the year. I think that's why Russia isn't particularly worried about dropping that territory like dead weight since if either side takes the dams out, it will bring offensives for both sides to a standstill in that region. Those dams are a hindrance to whichever side wants to launch an offensive but equally they're the only crossing points that can be used outside of January-February and July-August when the river is thin enough to pontoon across.
Satellite Imagery of Defensive Works, Bridges and Crossings of Kherson https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7Bg_3-UVyI
>>43550 >Russia retreats from Kherson, leaves crossings poorly defended >allows Ukraine to move huge number of men and equipment to the right side of Dnieper >Russia blows up dam trapping said forces on their side of the bank >proceeds to annihilate and mop up UAF trapped >flawlessvictory.jpeg This is only thing that would make up for the retreat, but it's so crazy and far fetched that it's only worth entering the thought of it, nothing more. There's no way UAF will fall for it. r-right?
>>43553 >Russia retreats from Kherson, leaves crossings poorly defended >allows Ukraine to move huge number of men and equipment to the right side of Dnieper >Russia blows up dam trapping said forces on their side of the bank >then Russia decides to focus on the defence of Crimea and retreats I really did lose all respect for them, and they will have to fight like demons to make up for that.
>>43553 Ukraine as a whole? No. Zelensky? He showed he was stupid enough to take the bait in Kherson when he could have pushed Russia all the way back to Luhansk back in August if he hadn't fallen for Boris' provocations. >>43554 >they will have to fight like demons to make up for that. I'm withholding judgement until January when the Russian offensive by every and all means has no excuse to stay on the defensive, but pretty much this right now.
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>>43554 >I really did lose all respect for them I'm sure Ivan feels very, very sad for that >>43543 Soon all shall be Pasta
>>43554 >I really did lose all respect for them, and they will have to fight like demons to make up for that. True. If Russia can't enforce it's interest on it's own border, it has no business on trying to expand its sphere of influence ,nor should they be allowed to. And I say this as someone who is very favorably biased towards Russia. it's painful to see them stumbling >>43555 >Ukraine as a whole? No. Zelensky? He showed he was stupid enough to take the bait in Kherson when he could have pushed Russia all the way back to Luhansk back in August if he hadn't fallen for Boris' provocations. I don't think Zelensky is the one making decisions anymore, hell, I'm willing to bet majority of military decisions are made in nearest NATO HQ. >>43556 If I put mayonnaise on pizza, will you die?
>>43557 It would be extremely tasteless
>>43558 You're a big tipo
>>43537 >Ukraine You mean NATO, which probably wants something like: - surrender Crimea - disband the Black Sea Fleet - allow Ukraine to join NATO - (give up any hope of influence in the Mediterranean) - (disband Tartus)
>>43554 oh nyo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEkiyIUqPrE Prigozhin and Kadyrov are both backing Surovikin's decision and I agree with Mercouris that if those two who have been critical of the Russian military are supporting the decision, then Surovikin might be making the tough decisions like a proper leader instead of as a career politician like the Western "military" leaders, so that reinforces me holding my tongue for the time being. I expect Surovikin to follow through on that promise to take it back though. Surovikin has been making tough but sound decisions since he took over after the Izium fuckup, even if they are bitter.
>>43534 How fucked is Russia at this point? Give me the worst case scenario.
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>>43566 So Russia is going to lose everything and go back to 2014? How and why was Putin so weak? Why did he allow this to happen?
>>43565 >>43567 >Give me the worst case scenario. >we're out of ideas, please give us new one go-guise pure diversity. >Why did he allow this to happen? B/c he knows the old adage that 'he who laughs last, laughs best' is still true today.
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Russians stated they have officially completed the retreat early this morning. Antonovsky and Nova Khakovka bridges were blown up after the completion of retreat. Allegedly the retreat actually started about a month ago when Surovikin said there will be 'unpopular decisions' made about Kherson, so basically the forces that were present there had to just buy enough time for civilians and heavy equipment to be evacuated. So far there has been little equipment left behind, I counted one Grad, 2 BMP-2, 2 tanks and 1 T90A which may or may not be one of those two tanks mentioned just before. Not Kharkov tier from what I've seen.
>>43569 Sageboi mad that dupsia got btfo.
>>43567 That's the worst case scenario, which i don't see happening to be honest, but still, if Russia keeps making these strategic retreats... >>43572 Damn, i expected a couple of weeks of a fighting retreat or something along those lines
>>43572 >Blowing up the bridge on their way out Oh you just know the Hohols are seething about that one after they failed to destroy it repeatedly. I was hoping the Russians would cut Ukraine off from the black aea entirely. They better take Kharkiv or at least fucking secure the Donbass now.
>>43574 >Damn, i expected a couple of weeks of a fighting retreat or something along those lines They probably cleared the area fast because they're genuinely afraid Cocainian forces might blow the dam and trap them or they fear real supply issues in the future.
>>43575 Yeah, this is disappointing, they better start encircling the Ukrainians now, to be completely honest i don't really get why they're still banging themselves against the center of donbass, couldn't they attack towards Zaporozhye and attack towards Kharkiv again but from the north? >>43577 Gotta give them credit for the retreat to be honest then, quick and physically painless, if they actually use the forces now at their disposal it might have been worth it
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Apparently Russia is pulling out of Fallujah.
>>43582 Remember when the media constantly floated all these "Blumpf has dementia" stories? This man has obviously mashed potatoes for brains. But apparently since ableism is bad even brain damage means you can hold office (cf. Fettermann).
>>43582 Democracy was a mistake
>>43577 It looks like Surovikin wants focus on the east and doesn't want to worry about Kherson. Holding the southern bank of the Dnipro is far easier, Kherson is still in artillery range, and Ukrainians are going to have a harder time launching offensives. If they even have the equipment to do so. Although I want to see Adiivka taken, or at least heavily sieged, before the new year if they're going to free up plenty of troops.
Truth be told, Kherson withdrawal is a good decision. It sucks, its embarassing but thats probably the best thing that could be done in this situation.
>>43585 As HistoryLegends pointed out recently, watch out for America supplying Ukraine with amphibious weapons in the coming months. https://youtube.com/watch?v=QToaSR0O_dE
>>43586 Cope
>>43590 What, ruskies were instead supposed to hold the ground endlessly with fucked up logistics for no real benefit?
>>43586 this. it's a propaganda loss, but it's sensible strategy, especially since they're in a consolidation phase right now. they'll take it all back and then some when the time is ripe, no need to waste their strength on propaganda wins. they're also focused on the Donbass at the moment. >>43591 yes, the Russians were supposed to be retards and hold onto every inch of land with a brittle defense, and burn themselves out defending a salient across the river.
>>43593 Dima was talking about "Russian Ukrainian peace negotiations" as if they were set in stone today, but I don't recall anything of the sort. He's coping hard with Russia pulling out of Kherson and thinks it's all part of some conspiracy peace deal with the USA lol.
>>43594 obviously compromise is never going to happen, not with the anti-Russian crusade among the fags. this is trading space for time, especially indefensible space. trust the plan
>>43594 Too early to say about the negotiations. I feel like Russia has been sending some feelers to gague the climate, but with so much disinfo and taking stuff out of context, it's impossible to know for sure. Ukrainian goverment allegedly said they're only gonna accept what basically is tandamount to unconditional surrender, aka Russia fucks off out of Ukraine including Crimea and Donbass. We'll know more in the coming weeks, if Russia suddenly starts to de escalate we can infer that Russia is trying to pull out of Ukraine and maybe save face by keeping Crimea. Part of me wants to belive Russia pulled a pro gaymer move and mobilized at least 500-600K men instead of 300K,. Maybe they figured nobody will actually go and count em',so they'll have more men to go on big offensive in near future. This however is a medium-rare cope.
>>43593 >they'll take it all back and then some when the time is ripe Been waiting on that for a while already, i still believe they will make some big offensives relatively soon, but still, doubt is creeping in >>43598 What happened to the Russians of old that weren't afraid of big wars with big casualties on both sides? Any negotiation that isn't built upon the defeat of Ukraine is going to be a massive loss of face for them, one that i doubt Putin will survive, again, what is there to negotiate when the two parties at war want the complete opposite?
>>43599 >What happened to the Russians of old that weren't afraid of big wars with big casualties on both sides? Lack of political will. Russian politicians probably know they could get away with conceding to Ukraine if it happens. Also, Russia was never the same after the collapse of Soviet Union. Commies basically exported a lot of industry to client states that broke away after the collapse, so their economy never fully recovered. The collapse somewhat broke down average Russian psychologically, and new generation is not accustomed to hardships and sacrifice. Also, WW2 kinda fucked them over population wise. Pretty depressing if you see population projection of Russia if it didn't come to WW2. So all of that kinda culminates. But this is just my opinion. >Any negotiation that isn't built upon the defeat of Ukraine is going to be a massive loss of face for them Fully agree. Russia is fundamentaly an empire with a veneer of Federation slapped over it. Not as simple but you get the gist. And empire lives and dies by its martial reputation. If they're not able to go trough with it, I think it's safe to say west will do everything in its power to Balkanize Russia,not that they haven't been trying. >one that i doubt Putin will survive, again, what is there to negotiate when the two parties at war want the complete opposite I think you underestimate politicians ability to royally fuck up and bounce back from it. You people wouldn't belive what kind of shit happens here and politicians get away with it. I imagine Russia is not too different.
>>43595 >trust the plan I DO, I DO!11 I just want to know when Jeb is going to win bigly so we can put this whole Russkie debacle behind us all?
>>43600 It just boggles my mind that they started the war but didn't prepare for the possibility that it wasn't going to be over in 2 weeks, you're supposed to hope for the best AND prepare for the worst. I do agree that Russia is quite weak in comparison with the USSR or Tsarist Russia at their heights, but still >I think it's safe to say west will do everything in its power to Balkanize Russia Exactly, Russia should realize this war isn't just some expedition that isn't going completely according to plan, but that if it fails it could spell the end of Russia, it feels like they're not taking it as seriously as they should. Granted, we've yet to see the mobilization really make a difference, plus the ground is still soft, maybe we'll be having a different conversation in a couple of months, maybe about the encirclement of Zaporozhye or something, but just as likely i see the liberation of Mariupol >I think you underestimate politicians ability to royally fuck up and bounce back from it. True, but history is also full of states starting wars they weren't ready for and suffering the consequences.
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>>43602 Yeah, but they did mobilize late. So much of this conflict is oddly reminiscent of WW2. Germany expected short war, Russia expected short war. Germany failed at gates of enemy capital, Russia failed at the gates of enemy capital. Germany didn't fully shift into gear untill 6th Army got annihilated at Stalingrad. Russia didn't fully shift the gear untill Kharkov debacle. Granted, Germany probably lost war in 1941 when they failed at Moscow ,with Fall Blau being final hail mary, after that it was more or less done deal. Maybe in future we'll say Russia failed at Kiev,with Ukrainians having their Rezhev in Kherson, maybe now we're waiting for Russian Fall Blau? This is why I generally stopped being optimistic for Russia. I espected this to be over in 3 months in February. Now, if Russia truly finds its way and intends to win this, it will be a long war of near annihilation of militaries , as Russia no longer fights Ukraine alone, Kiev is being backed by pretty hefty financial and military assets from the west. I think there are several more scenarios possible on battlefield in the near future but I'll wait to see something that would substantiate any one of those scenarios. >True, but history is also full of states starting wars they weren't ready for and suffering the consequences What do you mean? Paraguay showed us master class in military and diplomatic maneuver during the war of triple alliance and you know it.
>>43604 >Paraguay showed us master class in military and diplomatic maneuver during the war of triple alliance and you know it. <Russia loses 2/3rds of its male population becoming a paradise as millions of beautiful slavic maidens are desperate for men. I'm rooting for the Ukraine now.
I find it pretty interesting that after weeks of Western media ranting about how Russia's going to resort to nukes any day now since they're losing the war, now that Russia has actually suffered a humiliating setback, all talk of nukes is gone.
ukies are building a wall on western Ukraine, especially in the Rivne, Volyn Oblast area.
>>43610 I realized the wall is only 3km complete so take this a grain of salt but it's worth noting
>start off hating hohols because of ceaseless annoying propaganda spam >now hate vatniks for shitting the bed and then flipping the mattress only to shit in it again I begin to understand why so many people hate slavs.
>>43612 Russia has gigantic leadership problems on pretty much all levels of the command chain. And yes Surovikin probably isn't the strategic supergenius the pro-kacep's want him to be, but he hasn't disappeared into his own personal psychosis the way Putin has.
>>43610 Under orders in case Ukraine falls? I can't imagine there being many deserters left to run away to the West, at least any who would have already did.
>>43613 >Surovikin probably isn't the strategic supergenius the pro-kacep's want him to be He doesn't even need to be, avoiding retarded shit is enough. And by retarded shit I mean allowing politics to drive military decisions. So under his command decisions seem to be pragmatic: - Fall back with minimal casualties to consolidate the front line to address your severe numerical disadvantage. - Inflict heavy casualties on advancing force in the process. - Shitter shatter the enemy's electrical grid with rockets (significant departure from prior doctrine). - Mobilize reserves. - Evacuation and orderly withdrawal from Kherson reducing logistical liability. - Military leadership seems aligned and on the same page. - Not many fucks given about optics suggests he has backing from the civilian branch of the MOD/Putin. Could do a lot worse. Yeah it's fucking boring for shitposting about it but that's by design I think. >>43610 Russia id going to pay for it, aren't they?
>>43598 >Part of me wants to belive Russia pulled a pro gaymer move and mobilized at least 500-600K men instead of 300K HistoryLegends discussed that and from the sounds of it he thinks that is the case but they are still in training. Keep in mind Russia also has ~150k conscripts they could send to Ukraine without having to recruit anyone. >>43599 >What happened to the Russians of old that weren't afraid of big wars with big casualties on both sides? Birthrates collapsed post-USSR. Same issue most European countries have. >>43602 >it feels like they're not taking it as seriously as they should. In their defense, much like the Chinese, the Russians have a lot of ethnic minorities that would like nothing better than to break off into their own independent state. In comparison Ukraine just ordered a "general mobilization" of all able-bodied civilians suggesting that they are reaching their upper limits on casualties. >>43604 I'm not as pessimistic. If Russia backs out of a winter offensive then there's no point in even following this war as it will just be dickwaving at that point, but if Russia does launch a Winter offensive, the economic impact alone could cripple Ukraine let alone the military losses. That being said, Russia seems to be shying away from a fucking Winter offensive, their specialty, at the moment, so I have very low hopes for now. >>43606 I'd unironically purchase a mail-order bride if she's young and virginal post-war. Yes I realize that's a unicorn unless the FBI wants to join the conversation and mail-order brides were made illegal years ago by feminist sluts, but a man can dream. >>43611 It only takes a small block of cement to stop a tank, so it's something.
>>43613 Surovikin is actually perhaps the most qualified candidate for leading the military since he's one of the only Russian generals with a history in combined arms warfare. Most Russian generals are only good at ground warfare, air warfare, or naval warfare, while Surovikin has both the training and the history of combat with all three, along with the resolve to follow through. He's also perhaps one of the least corrupt commanders out there. If he can't do it, the Russians would be hard-pressed to find anyone else who could in their high command at the moment. His experience combining infantry and airforce already bore results over around the Donbass.
>>43615 The problem is Surovikin reports to Shoigu and his civilian-side defense council, and I shouldn't have to state how much of a clusterfuck that has been even if it's the "proper Russian way" of doing things.
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So much cope in this thread. I hate Ukrainians and the USA proxy war policy but Russia fucked itself by not mobilizing their society into Total War mode at the very beginning of this thing. Putin is the weakest SOB in history to lead a major power. He was talking so much shit back in March and now he looks like the biggest pussy in history. "Limited Special Operation," what a fucking joke. If you come at ZOG you better come with everything you got and go for the jugular ASAP. Putin was supposed to take Kiev and execute Zelensky. He should have used nukes by now. Every inch covered by Russia soldiers should have been scorched Earth all the way to Poland. Instead he bends over backwards to not hurt anyone and sends in a pissant military force that can't cover everything, he constantly holds back power and keeps giving the USA the opportunity to widen the war, dump more weapons, money, and soldiers in, as well as calibrating all their hundreds of satellites into picking Russians apart with targeting. That is how the Moskva died. USA satellites, USA anti-ship missile. If Russians don't execute Putin for this kind of limp dick cowardice then they are more cucked than Americans. Russia is going to lose everything. They are going to go back to 2014 borders. Crimea is gone. Putin is too pussy to launch a nuke.
>>43621 That's true, they really fell for the hearts-and-minds meme at the start but Surovikin seems to be on a long leash right now with enough political cover to do the needful. Key players are aligned right now but, as they say, this too shall pass. >>43619 >It only takes a small block of cement to stop a tank That wall is on the Polish border, it's for keeping hohols in rather than keeping tanks out.
>>43626 >it's for keeping hohols Gee that would be hella usefull like one year ago before we were invaded by these monkey faced parasites from wild fields. >>43619 Dont count on winter offensive. It would be hardly beneficial, compared to stalling for time. Its war, war take time, I suppose it will be over somewhere in 2-3 years . >>43625 You seem to give a fuck. Dont.
>>43537 The Ukraine would make insane demands, but NATO would generally want a combination of: >Dismantlement of the Black Sea Fleet >Return of Crimea >Denouncement of Claims in Novorossiya >Denouncement of Goal of Denazification >Surrender or Occupation of Nordstream >Acceptance of Responsibility for the Conflict >Recognition of Russian Crimes >Denouncement of Claims of Abuse Against Ethnic Russians >POW Transfers >Reparations for the Ukraine >Acquisition of the Ukraine's War Debt >Non-Intervention in Ukrainian Pursuit of NATO and EU Membership >Demilitarization of Russian Border With the Ukraine >Revocation of Russian Military Presence in Belarus >Extradition of Indicted Officials >Revocation of Tariffs >>43599 >What happened to the Russians of old that weren't afraid of big wars with big casualties on both sides? Gorbachev.
>>43610 Hey yo waitup, I thought walls were supposed to keep ppl out? >>43615 >Russia id going to pay for it, aren't they? OK, I kek'd tbh.
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https://archive.ph/T2TFs >The largest state program for the production of weapons in modern Russian history, for which 20 trillion rubles were allocated from the federal budget over the past 10 years, has been scrapped. >In early November, Russian President Vladimir Putin instructed to rewrite the supply standards for the army and bring them "in line with the real needs" of the armed forces. According to the list of Putin's instructions, the order must be implemented as soon as possible - before November 14. Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin and Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu were appointed responsible. >De facto, Putin has suspended the State Armaments Program (SAP), the basic plan on which the military-industrial complex has been operating in recent years. The current SAP has ceased to be a document by which weapons are purchased and financed by the military-industrial complex, a source close to the Ministry of Defense and a top manager of a defense industry enterprise told Vedomosti . > fact, the development of the new SAP, which was estimated at 22 trillion rubles, has also been suspended, one of the sources of the publication says. The reason, according to him, is that it is necessary to "revise priorities", based on the experience of the campaign in Ukraine. >Launched in the early 2010s and then expanded every five years, the state arms production program “ate up” about two trillion rubles a year—two-thirds of the defense budget. According to the plan, by 2020, divisions of Armata tanks, a new strategic bomber, 600 aircraft and thousands of helicopters were to enter the troops, and the share of modern weapons was to grow to 70%. Armatafags on suicide watch. Russia truly is a nation of nothing but losers and the very definition of cope.
>>43619 >Same issue most European countries have So, the Jews then? (((Feminism))) is a helluva drug.
>>43631 Wonder what they will put in replacement. Well, we should know in two days.
I don't care about Russia's wellbeing but I hope they get their shit together soon. The last thing I want is for a Ukrainian victory to make the West conclude that it was worth it to fuck themselves over domestically.
>>43625 >so much cope Stopped reading. Eat shit.
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>>43634 >Replacement?
>>43599 >Been waiting on that for a while already, i still believe they will make some big offensives relatively soon, but still, doubt is creeping in It's not even winter yet. I expect the current stalemate to drag out until December, then it should get interesting. Keep in mind that the war has already escalated with Russia's missile/drone volley against Ukraine's energy grid, which has substantial impact without obvious changes in territory. Also, if they had foolishly tried to hold onto Kherson, Ukraine would've pursued the obvious strategy of surrounding them and using their greater numbers for attrition. It would've been a liability, so it's as I said, a propaganda loss in favor of prudent strategy. The withdrawal was organized, with Russia getting all (or almost all) its people/troops/stuff out without disorder. >>43604 I think this is a stretch. Russia didn't expect a short war, Western propaganda claimed they did. and Russia's drive for Kiev was primarily a pinning maneuver designed to split ukrop forces, which succeeded (even if they couldn't bluff Ukraine into surrender). >>43615 pretty much this. >>43625 the Big Serge substack covered this well. Basically, all-out war in the beginning would've pissed off the Russian people, and Putin would've lost popular support. That's because it would've been seen as disproportionate and excessive, especially given the close ties between those two countries. Instead, Putin sent in a limited volunteer force that tread lightly, sparing critical infrastructure, which was generally approved. Phase I was about using this force, not to conquer Ukraine, but to capture territory in the Donbass and a land bridge to Crimea, which has been achieved. But there was another objective -- to prove to the Russian people that the Ukraine war is an existential conflict with high stakes, or as you put it: >If you come at ZOG you better come with everything you got and go for the jugular ASAP. This has been proven by sanctions, Western lies/propaganda/hate of all things Russian, Ukrainian war-crimes, and so on. With all this, the public will of Russia is ready for the mobilization and escalation of phase II, which wasn't there when this started. As I said, all according to plan.
Are there any ecelebs that aren't just contrarians? Mercouris seems fine but even with his reports you'd think Russia is gonna be at Paris doors in 2 days, he tries to be imparcial but recognizes propaganda from the west but seems to not be able to realize the same comes from the east, he could be right in his assesments but him being apologetic for kharkiv and now kherson aswell as fellating Putin's cock over his speech without taking into consideration he could just be saying what he says for show, makes me realize he drank a bit too much of the koolaid once you see his credentials it sort of explains it, his podcast The Duran is carried completely by him with his co-host being an insufferable faggot that adds nothing of value and is willing to host a guess that says things like "China is true democracy" and overall the best thing since sliced bread and offer no counter arguement to it. Starting to realize they just hold anti-west bias more than anything else. I want someone who will look at both east and west with a cold heart and analytical mind being aware that both sides are no good.
>>43640 >I want someone who will look at both east and west with a cold heart and analytical mind being aware that both sides are no good. You'd need someone from with a true third worlder background, in the Cold War sense of being from a country not affiliated with either block. And in this globalized world it's hard to find someone like this, especially someone who is also knowledgeable about the ways of the world and can give you a good analysis.
Ukraine says the Crimea not the bridge but the peninsula itself is within target range thanks to the Russian retreat, Ukraine is likely hiding some it's HIMARs Kherson area
>>43631 >Ate up 2/3rds of the military budget >Scrapped because it's unrealistic and doesn't meet Russia's needs Not to sound like cope, but isn't that a good thing so long as it's replaced with something else in short order? Armatas cost about $4 million converting rubles to USD and are open targets compared to, say, the TOS-1 model which is getting a proper independent system developed in the TOS-2 for trench-busting?
>>43639 >Ukraine would've pursued the obvious strategy of surrounding them and using their greater numbers for attrition. Even worse; Ukraine would have blown the dam and flooded Kherson as well as half the villages between Kherson and Crimea. That's why they're so angry about Russia discussing doing the same since it would force Ukraine to fight in the flat open plains near Zaporizhia instead or beg the West for amphibious assault equipment that was all destroyed in Mariupol and silly attacks on Enerhodar.
>>43640 History Legends will shit on both parties, but he only releases a Russia-Ukraine video about once every two weeks. Wyatt has been the most realistic (Defense Politics Asia) but he implemented a rule of waiting at least a day because of Russian and Ukrainian propagandists and he almost strictly covers territorial gains and troop losses while mostly staying away from the politics/speeches unless it's relevant to troop movements.
>>43646 indeed. I forgot to mention that supply lines across the river could easily be cut off; yet another reason for tactical withdrawal.
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not war related but Vkusno i tochka has bought some properties in Minisk and now will be competing with KSB Victory (Belarus McDonald)
>>43645 It sounds like they've stopped development of new equipment to increase production of what they already have. Some new stuff like the TOS-2 as you said, will still be developed if it's warranted. It's a combination of Russia can't afford it and they need equipment now. It's what I've already figured they've done since June; it shouldn't really come as a surprise to anyone. At least they're increasing production, I'm sure Europe's out of stuff to give and I know the U.S. is hurting for HIMARS. But NATO's MIC isn't willing to invest what's necessary for a war considering the amount hemming & hawing going on. Also, Ukraine is now using technicals in combat according to DPA, take that as you like.
>>43650 On one hand that makes sense, as much as I'd like to see what the Armata is really capable of in actual combat, it looks like all the fancy extra capabilities would be wasted in this kind of war. On other hand, I wonder what they will start developing once this war is over.
>>43653 Again, we dont know if Armata is out of the new plan, but we should know in two days so its not even worth arguing about. Unless they keep it a state secret but I doubt this as they need some real face saving measures right now.
>>43628 >NATO would generally want a combination of: >listofevenmoreinsanedemands.txt Jesus, probably less costly for Russia just to keep fighting. Especially >Black Sea Fleet That was kinda Russia's motivation all along there. >>43639 >Russia didn't expect a short war >Kiev was a feint Oh look, this shit again. They absolutely did expect Kiev to capitulate quickly, the unanticipated part was the how many resources the west threw into Ukraine to keep it going. Splitting Ukrainian forces was a secondary objective at best but gave them Mariupol and a land bridge to Crimea. >As I said, all according to plan. Ok that seriously made me chuckle. >>43642 >You'd need someone from with a true third worlder background, in the Cold War sense of being from a country not affiliated with either block. i.e. someone who gives a shit, but shouldn't really be giving a shit, we need a real autist >>43645 >>43650 >>43653 I expect a bigger focus on autonomous weapons and comms instead of trying to build a better tank. >Ukraine is now using technicals in combat according to DPA, take that as you like. hoholqueda
>>43636 Truth hurts, pussy.
>>43672 >That was kinda Russia's motivation all along there. Which is why it must cease to exist, so it can never motivate a war again. >>43537 Nuclear disarmament for Russia is a must. Putin has proven that they're no less threatening than North Korea in their use, and therefore Russia cannot be allowed to keep a single nuke, to protect the world from Armageddon.
>>43673 I legitimately stopped reading there, I have no idea what you said I only know it was retarded tripe. Eat shit.
>>43680 You read the whole thing and seethed hard, bitch. Get fucked.
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Nova Kakhovka.
I wish one side doubled down on trench warfare to the point that they activate old railway guns from museums.
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>>43685 Same, but with nuclear artillery.
>>43685 I do find interesting how modern war is resembling WW1, the amount of data collection tools makes big concentration of troops really hard and unwise to maintain, so advances have to be piecemeal, small operations that slowly take ground, unless of course it's abandoned as the Russians have been doing.
>>43686 Even non-nuclear big guns would be fun. Considering how Ukrainians were (and I assume are) using even Maxims, the lack of old artillery is a bit of a shame. >>43687 I was quite shocked that trench warfare is this good in this day and age, but it makes sense if you put it this way.
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Why haven't Hohols gotten any free M1A MBTs yet?
>>43689 Because they wouldn't be able to maintain them in the field. The nearby supply of spare parts/garages/mechanics are tooled for Leopards.
>>43689 For whatever reason tanks and aircraft seem to be a red line for the west. Although soviet tanks are fine, but not even soviet planes are allowed to be delivered.
>>43691 >implying I skipped a month or two, was it ever explained where ukies found all these Frogfoots that kept getting shot down?
>>43682 Nope, cope with that.
>>43686 I wonder how much those barrels weigh.
>>43686 At this point I wish someone would launch a nuclear artillery shell so that the world can end this farce that nuclear = MAD/permanent damage. That would be too convenient in ending WEF hegemony if uppity nations started building defensive nukes to keep out invaders though. >>43689 Practical answer? They don't have the spare parts to maintain them while old-ass soviet parts are a dime a dozen. See >>43690 Official answer? See >>43691 The planes are because Ukraine has already used helicopters to fly low and run suicide-assaults on Russian territory paying no heed to Crimea or Russian-held land and they likely expect Ukraine would do the same with any aircraft. Speaking of... >>43643 Well this is Ukraine's chance to show they will war "properly" to justify Western powers giving them aircraft/longer-reaching missiles so they can break all their promises anyways and do the same niggerish shit they did back in March/April when they were throwing a temper tantrum. >>43673 >>43680 >>43682 This is why I like the bumplocked version of this thread.
>>43696 Probably less than anon's mum. A standard-length 125mm T-14 cannon weighs about 2,400-2,675kg (Just shy of 6,000lbs) including the gun portion, so I imagine the big boy version there is about double or triple that weight.
Quick sitrep >reports of Ukrainian Armed Forces leaving Kherson If true most likely they are being redeployed on new front. Probably Zaporozhie. >Russians claim they repulsed landing attempt at Kinburn Split, reports 20 UAF KIA >conflicting reports coming from Makeevka, can't make out details yet, I think UAF claims they've taken it
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>>43701 This triggers my autism
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So uhhhh, who's winning?
Apparently wagners are executing traitors. There is some video, if someone has a telegram account: https://t.me/grey_zone/15767
>>43704 China.
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>>43704 よみ。
>>43679 And why would they accept nuclear disarmament?
>>43704 Momentum has been on Ukraine's side since late august, but it feels like Russia could gain it back in winter, provided they actually try.
>>43709 >Momentum Thats a bad word, it implies movement.
>>43710 Yeah, and for months Russia's movement has been almost all backwards.
>>43704 >So uhhhh, who's winning? >needing to ask Grim Reaper (team WEF™)
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>run away and surrender to hohols >get traded back to vatniks in a prisoner exchange >get thor'd.com lol
>>43704 >Who's winning? Video related. Long-term? Assuming Russia still intends to fight they are "winning" by virtue of everyone else losing their economy/gas. Immediately? Ukraine is "winning" because Russia is retreating to safer battle lines. One could argue the WEF is up right now since normalfags are letting them proceed with their Great Reset unabated to "combat Russia."
>>43705 >Most of Wagner's grunts are supposed to be in prison, are deep in debt, or they're in some shit with organized crime >Video pops up of Wagner CEO explaining that those who run away without a damned good reason are getting shot >People are surprised when some dumb schmucks do just that and get shot Play stupid games, win stupid prizes, as they say.
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So who's gonna start pushing harder for territory come this Winter when the ground starts freezing over and tank crews don't need to worry about sinking in the mud? I'm sure it will get pretty intense either way. >>43611 I'm sure the plan is to surround both sides with mine fields maybe even turn it into a layered cake of death with another concrete wall. Not much else you can do with such wide flat open land. The Holol's should start breaking out the old Czech hedgehogs too even if it's a cope it's still an inconvenient cope for Russia. >>43612 Just do what I do and hate both sides of this conflict fren and enjoy the free war footage and memes. >>43704 >So uhhhh, who's winning? Russia is currently winning but at at high cost of six gorrillion BMP's dying every day and with vodka rations too now. Of course with China refusing to ship plastic crap to America all those sweet anti aircraft launchers and HIMARS will start drying out, it's not necessarily a chip problem since Taiwan has been up day and night to get people their shit in order to state relevant but a lot of other shit is still needed to be processed in the Mainland because Americans are retarded and are now reaping what they've sown. Source just trust me bro.
>>43713 Boycott Microsoft and all the other WEF members anon.
>>43719 >Russia is winning Russia has been losing since they retreated from Kiev.
>>43722 Last I checked they'd gained several millions of fresh laborers and lots of lebensraum.
>>43722 Basically you fight people (or rather their government), not land. Who do you think has better k:d ratio at this point and by how much? Seeing the tactics used by both sides my bet is on the russians, even with all these past blunders.
>>43725 I imagine they've "evened out" since then but I think it was roughly 3:1 back in May/June as a point of reference (3 dead Hohols for every 1 dead Vatnigger), but that was the "conservative" estimate and I've seen as high as 5:1 as still being reasonable with error margin.
>>43722 They certainly were getting their asses handed to them early on in the war thanks to all those Turkish drones the Holol's had stocked up and internal Russian corruption and greed hampering and even endangering the basic grunts and Chechen warlords isn't just a Western propaganda meme when they're to cheap to even give their front line soldiers even the cheapest of Chinesium optics along with those side mounts you can screw in and Americans have been putting these on their Yugo and Romanian AK imports for decades now. Granted artillery is what wins the war but I can't imagine it would cost that much more to provide especially when China is right next door and Russia is already selling them gas and oil to them so it would be pretty fucking easy to bargain that deal for a little quality of life for the grunts. But in the end of the day Russia has air superiority and while that doesn't guarantee victory always Afghanistan for example only had captured RPG's and shitty Cold War era Stinger missiles that were prone to over heating so their guidance computers needed coolant but they won because their Geography sucks for invaders and the natives to given they've spent centuries trying to build a road to connect the country and aren't even a quarter of the way done. The Ukraine is mostly flat so they don't have the luxury of having a lot of mountains and caves to hide in at best they've got a few hills in relevant places. Personally I think it's inevitable they'll surrender and sue for peace but only after they've secured their last seaport so they at least have a slither of coastline left and aren't cucked out of the Black Sea, well if their leaders have any common sense anyway but that remains to be seen. Personally I'd rather have a small country than no country at all and sure while that fucking sucks at least mining and walling off the border is cheaper since you have less to guard. I'd prefer one of the regions huge rivers become the new border because then Holol's and Donbassesian's are physically separated by a large body of water and no longer have to deal with each other aside from the occasional fisherman spat. >since they retreated from Kiev. Retreating doesn't mean defeat, they could be trying to goat the Holol's into getting overly competent. Also the Vatnics could just be holding the Capital hostage and just flatten the whole thing if they don't get what they want even if reluctantly because having to flip the bill to rebuild an entire city probably isn't fun. >>43730 >I imagine they've "evened out" since then but I think it was roughly 3:1 back in May/June as a point of reference (3 dead Hohols for every 1 dead Vatnigger) To be fair didn't Russia suffer a huge demographic crisis after the Soviet Union fell and everyone started drinking themselves to death rather than have children and now they're slowly being replaced by Kazakhs, or at least were for a while? Plus the brain drain too. If there's more Holol's to spare than their are Vatnics then on paper technically they should be winning. Of course I'm not that delusional to cement my world views entirely on /pol/ meme's no just a quarter or 10th of them but if my bullshit sudo-math is correct then those losses might actually be pretty devastating to Russia and will take time to recover but they've got the natural gas to not freeze to death this coming Winter so they'll probably get by while Europe is forced to fire up their coal plants and dust off their chimneys because while wind turbines and solar panels have their uses for small communities and off grid homes they're most certainly not gonna be powering entire cities that's for sure.
Also that might be why Russia is letting Syrian mercs into their ranks and not only as a I'll scratch your back if you scratch my back policy but because the leadership really is concerned with their losses in manpower and I'm sure a lot of those SAA dudes can speak Russian pretty decently now after all these years working with them against ISIS.
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>>43672 >Oh look, this shit again. We disagree on primary vs secondary objectives. However, it's probably true that Russia underestimated the Western response to the invasion. They probably expected some reprisal, but not an iron curtain of sanctions and the better part of NATO military strength used to prop up the Kiev regime. >Ok that seriously made me chuckle. Russia isn't perfect, and they probably could've waged war at a faster pace. But overall, this is proceeding according to plan. If Putin has any faults, it's that he's too much of a nice guy -- he's obsessed with honor, decency, proportionality, last resort, etc. I can see the value in this, but it becomes a liability against ZOG, as WWII taught us.
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>The Ukrainian-Russian conflict must be resolved on the battlefield - Jens Stoltenberg >“We must not make the mistake of underestimating Russia. The Russian army is strong and numerous. The coming months will be tough. What we must do is to strengthen the position of Ukraine. The only way to resolve the Russian-Ukrainian conflict is on the battlefield. Many wars have been decided at the negotiating table, but this is not the case,” Stoltenberg said.
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>>43714 He wasn't prisoner exchanged but re-captured and kidnapped by the FSB. The man didn't just surrender but was actively working with the SBU according to some Russian sources
>>43737 meant to upload different picture
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Russians are are clearing out Pervomais'ke, Vodayne, and mopping up Ukrainian forces around Opytne south of Adiivka. Russian pushes are being made all across the eastern front now. They've yet to gain much if any, but it looks like the deployment of new troops and possibly those from Kherson is beginning to make an impact. >>43736 >we're going to negotiate >negotiation is not an option Is this a case of too many cooks in the kitchen or is any pretense of negotiations going to be dropped soon? The west has to know that Russia will not capitulate to their demands and the only option left is to escalate but so many people have reservations it's going to be a tough sell. To quote a scene from Generation Kill "It's as if there's a plan".
According to Mercouris it was apparently confirmed that the Russians bribed a Ukrainian official into giving them an unmolested HIMARS launcher a couple months ago. The rest of his video has been Copium mining so not much to report from him.
>>43740 >or is any pretense of negotiations going to be dropped soon? They'll never be dropped but actions speak louder than words. They have to pretend to be negotiating or else they can't get the support of non-European nations which is already dwindling faster than expected. The thing about international markets; You make more money because of economies of scale, but they equally have you by the balls if you want to change the rules (Russian sanctions) and a better competitor comes along (Russia/China). America could bully people for the last century into complying because of Capitalist systems giving them better/more numerous military tech in conjunction with their alliance with several Middle Eastern and Western European nations pumping out the world oil supply (primarily the Saudis and UK investment firms in Asia), but America finally turned their back on Capitalism in the 70s in favor of a socialist welfare state, and the ship began to sink in 2008.
Anyone know anything about FTX? Apparently the CEOs have fled to Dubai and everyone's money is missing after they wildly spent it on Democrat election campaigns and the Ukrainian war via crypto.
>>43740 >Is this a case of too many cooks in the kitchen or is any pretense of negotiations going to be dropped soon? Honestly I'd be surprised if there general consensus among the western nations about singular course of action. Some nations have hateboner for Russia while others want to cooperate when it comes to raw resources/energy/fertilizers/food etc. So far it looks like several major players are throwing things at the Russian wall to see what sticks. At least that's how it feels to me. >>43741 >According to Mercouris it was apparently confirmed that the Russians bribed a Ukrainian official into giving them an unmolested HIMARS launcher a couple months ago Are there any proofs for that? There was talk about Russians acquiring HIMARS but there hasn't been any concrete evidence. I did see an undamaged disassembled guided rocket used by HIMARS that was posted by the Russians, but not entire MRLS. There was also fuss about Russians allegedly buying one or two Cesars from UAF, Uralvagonzavod posted a thanks to French embassy for the SPG, but no pictures that I've seen. So I don't know if it's true or just Russians shitposting/psyop. However during the Great Balkan Party of 90's it wasn't unheard of sections of the front shooting the shit out of each other during the day, but trading stuff during the night
>>43745 Explanation for FTX is much more simple. You have two billionaires who hate each other. One runs FTX, one runs Binance. FTX dude got startup funding from Binance dude, and bought him out with the crypto FTX mints. FTX dude starting a risky trading platform and secretly gives himself loans in FTX crypto, then goes to himself to buy dollar with the borrowed crypto, which he then uses to buy other crypto. This means FTX has far fewer reserves than they claim, and their ability to pay people back rides on the FTX crypto going strong. Binance dude hears of this and gets a raging boner. He takes to Twitter to say he's gonna dump all of his massive FTX crypto pile. FTX dude begs him to do a private transaction between themselves at above market rate so the market doesn't crash. Binance dude's boner rips his pants in half. He declines and dumps. FTX crashes, Binance offers to buy it, and at this point something like 600 million mysteriously disappear from FTX coffers. Binance backs out.
>>43748 It's simpler but it leaves out the fact that the dude's dad was an IRS agent in the counter-crypto market and his mother was a Super-PAC funder for the Democrats and the evidence suggests the kid got the start-up funds for this project from Epstein.
>>43737 I read differently but that could've been propaganda. Who actually knows? All I know is that guy got hit with a sledgehammer and it made me flinch.
>>43751 I'd say there's an important distinction between desertion, Bergdahl style, vs being an active traitor. The latter is much more deserving of the death sentence than the former.
>>43751 What got me was they hit his jaw in the first hit before finishing the job after he was off the block. If you aren't very tough that jaw hit would likely "shock" you bad enough that you wouldn't feel your death, but a lot of these guys are hard criminals or were involved in violent work, so in many ways they'd be "mentally toughened" to expect it meaning he would have probably been in horrible pain until that third strike. Fuck, man. I'd rather get the firing squad or the rope.
>>43714 Also the sound comes through before he makes impact on the second strike. Not saying it's shopped but there's been some serious editing or audio lag.
>>43640 Caralho
>>43690 *T-72s Germany didn't allow anyone but themselves to maintain the Leopards, to the point of causing problems with them and us actually (finally) deciding to just get some American and South Korean ones.
>>43759 >Germany didn't allow anyone but themselves to maintain the Leopards According to gossip on Smug's cafe they don't even allow their own engineers to maintain them without going through months of logistical paperwork.
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Reports of a Russian missile that landed on Poland and killed 2, might be bullshit, but if it isn't... no idea what could happen. If it's true though, the fuck did they aim at? if i were Russia i wouldn't send any ordnance anywhere near NATO borders
>>43759 >deciding to just get some American and South Korean ones. ...Which we cannot realistically afford >>43762 Fuck. I was foolish to have hope.
>>43762 Russia has committed a first strike upon NATO, Article 5 time. We'll be in Moscow by Christmas. Russia shall have Freedom, at last.
>>43762 2022 just keeps on giving
>>43762 I'm thinking false flag escalation by NATO.
Apparently it could have been a granary explosion and it's a false alarm. >>43766 Does make some sense, but it's threatening nuclear war outright. My guess is that a missile was pushed of course due to Ukrainian air defense and just landed there, or a simple manufacturing error.
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MUH RUSSIAN BOMBS!!!!!!!!!! WE NEED TO GO TO WAR WITH RUSSIA NOW!!!!!!!
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Russian missiles land in Poland💥 https://archive.ph/SHaqp >During rocket attacks on Ukraine, one of the rockets hit Poland and caused damage to property and the death of two people, according to unconfirmed media reports. It is unclear if the missiles are from Russia's mass bombardment of Ukrainian cities earlier today. It is reported that over 100 rockets were launched. Equities pulled back sharply following the news. Russian troops carry out a massive offensive in Ukraine. The Polish government called an extraordinary security meetingand we are curently waiting for official confirmation.
becuase the russian command clearly wanted to attack a polish tractor
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>>43769 >post it as soon as I find it >thread finally decides to update and now it's old news
>>43769 >>43762 False flag or happy accident, either way Poland is already chomping at the bit and this is the excuse they need to butt their heads where they don't belong. Now to see if cooler heads prevail when Polish leaders are met with the actual threat of war, or if NATO declares Article V before they have a chance. All I will say that it's might convenient this happened right as Russia was starting to turn the situation around and right after a meeting between the Americans and Russians. Well if this is the excuse to drop the nukes I will just say in advance that it's been fun shitposting with you since I'm in a guaranteed target zone, /k/.
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>The fragments found at the site of the explosion resemble parts from an S-300 anti-aircraft missile, apparently fired by Ukrainian air defense systems. >The second image shows an example of an S-300 missile upper stage, and the third image shows fragments of an Azerbaijani S-300 missile that fell in Dagestan during the Second Karabakh War. Taken from telegram
>>43776 >Poland will do with Russia to Ukraine what Germany and Russia did to Poland
>>43773 >happened right as Russia was starting to turn the situation around In what kind of fantasy world are you living?
>>43777 The only thing that would be cherry on the clown word cake is if Poland declares war on Ukraine and triggers Article fag five in order to take Lvov.
>>43779 Thats ridiculous. Poland has no honor left, we are just a bunch of german slaves watched over by ukrainian gestapo.
>>43778 The one paying attention to the parts of the war being fought without a gun. Answer me this, Germ: Why is Ukraine saying their best men are all dead? Why have weapon imports after June/July rapidly decreased? Why did Europe lose interest in the grain deal after getting their share of the wheat knowing this war could go into next year's harvest as well? Where did Russia lose their conscripts and reservists? Why did twelve nations just file to join BRICS? Why do those combined nations make up over 40% of the world's wealth, over 30% of the world population, and 65% of the world oil supply if we're supposed to be using the Petrodollar, and why aren't they siding with Ukraine? Why did the UN general assembly overwhelmingly abstain from condemning Russia? Why did Modi say that this war is the end of proxy wars while hosting the Russians? Where are Ukraine's supplies to fight a winter war when people were already complaining about rationing food back in August? Why is the IMF of the opinion that Ukraine won't survive as a country if they are allegedly winning? Why has Ukraine been unable to make any progress while Russia is allegedly at their lowest point in the conflict? Why has Russia been in talks with the Turks and Saudis who only side with winners?
>>43776 So it's the gulf of Tonkin. Unless we're in clown world and Poland intends to also invade Ukraine to cuck Russia out of territory (I hope they would).
>>43769 What are the chances that this is a nothingburger?
>>43767 you can't underestimate the masters of GAE. These faggots have openly proclaimed their intention to reduce us all to serfdom. They might be willing to risk nuclear war for the Great Reset. >>43781 this. Ukro propaganda is so pervasive that otherwise intelligent ppl get taken in by it. Russia is winning despite what you're led to believe.
>>43780 Nothing a good revolution wouldn't fix. Also, I've seen some Polacks fighting on the Russian side, especially among Rusich. Be the man invader you want to be. >>43782 >Unless we're in clown world and Poland intends to also invade Ukraine to cuck Russia out of territory (I hope they would We're definitely in clown world, but I don't know if we've reached sufficient honk levels yet. Still... Would be pretty funny if Poland suddenly stopped fuming about the Russians if they realized they could get some extra clay. Won't happen but still.
>>43784 Russia is winning because they can take lots of slaps and still keep dishing it out, but this war overall a winter war tier operation.
>>43781 >Why has Ukraine been unable to make any progress Yeah. He might have had a point of Ukraine had just taken some major city Russia claims as integral Russian territory, but we all know that definitely hasn't happened recently.
>>43786 More or less, Russia can still unfuck itself though
>>43787 Russia willingly withdrew from Kherson to consolidate their gains and focus elsewhere. It was a propaganda loss, but good strategy, since that city would've been a massive liability, being on the other side of the river. The war is far from over.
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>>43789 If this were any other war I'd hit back with banter about whether they'll keep up their "good strategy" until they've given up everything as "a massive liability, being on the other side of the border". But I can't bring myself to act like a fucking hohol.
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>>43755 YES.
>>43785 >if Poland suddenly stopped fuming about the Russians if they realized they could get some extra clay. Could see it with Hungary, not with Poland though, Poland is slow and steady becoming Western Europe watered down culture German/American slave.
>>43769 >pole harbour KURRRRRRWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Looks like putin took the wok to poland
https://youtu.be/vHSNZK4Je-Y They deleted the message in 2 minutes
>>43796 >second pic isn't that a guy
>>43791 lol, I understand. but proportionality and extent matters. The Russians are focusing on the Donbass right now, and they've been destroying the Ukro electrical grid and other vital infrastructure (including in Kherson as they left), which makes an impact without obvious change in territory. >>43797 probably, but who knows, it's getting confusing.
>>43787 60% of Kherson is on the East bank. 100% if Russians blow the dam.
>>43798 Not quite. The utilities were connected to Nikolaev and Ukraine disconnected them, so Russia had to bring power over from Crimea. They just disconnected those power lines since they aren't occupying it for now.
>>43763 Whether we can afford it or not, doesn't matter, but we're getting it anyway. >>43762 18 km away from our border with Ukraine. Kek It's an obvious one if it was Russian. Can't really exclude the possibility of other shenanigans either. If it is a Russian missile, then I do hope our government will set up a security zone into Ukraine and shoot at any approaching Russians. I remember Turkey getting away with shooting down some Russian jets in the past. Nobody will cause a WW3 over this, neither will Russia cause a WW3 over some lost cannonfodder.
>>43785 >Nothing a good revolution wouldn't fix That's also what I'd say. But I'd preferably do it without Russian "help". That's not really a revolution then, but just replacement of globohomo with globohomo. Reminder that Russia is not some kind of anty globohomo faction, they're actually the same as the degenerate west.
>>43799 useful to know. and it's not hard to guess why such an important fact gets buried. >>43800 I was going by this: https://southfront.org/russian-military-reportedly-destroyed-large-energy-infrastructure-facility-in-kherson-region/ >During the Russian withdrawal from from the right bank of the Dnieper River in the Kherson region, the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation destroyed a large energy infrastructure facility that supplied part of the right bank and the Mykolaiv region with electricity. >>43803 I don't want to get into more pointless debates over this, and I don't idolize Russia or China. However, I see them as the less bad option, since they're in a lesser state of decay. Besides, a multipolar world would create chaos, and that's to our benefit.
>>43804 >Besides, a multipolar world would create chaos, and that's to our benefit. It's the same reason you traditionally want multi-party control of government; they can't fight you if they're too busy fighting each other. A multi-polar world is good for most of the world, but bad for the major players. I don't fear the collapse of American hegemony but I do fear BRICS becoming the new petrodollar because of the implications when China and Russia use it the same way America did but without the checks and balances. Then again the fact that the last 5-6 generations have more or less lived different lives in different worlds than the last 500-600 generations of humans scares me a whole lot more since some "technologies" necessary for a simple society over the last several thousand years have been lost in about 200 years because of hydrocarbons.
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>>43762 OH BOY HERE WE GO >>43764 It would be worth having a nuclear war just to shut you up.
>>43806 I can't wait for cataclysm. AI isn't as good as generating photos of San Fran getting nuked as I would like, so let's get some real ones instead.
>>43762 >>43769 >Already talks of forcing buffer zone/no fly zone in Ukrainian border Makes sense since NATO has to be triggered its equipment keeps getting blown up once it crosses into Ukraine and a buffer area would allow staging of new weapons without fear of attack.
>>43809 The false flag sounds more and more likely
>>43809 >>43810 >NATO sets up a staging area on Ukraine's border >Uses it as an excuse to deny Ukrainian refugees >Greedily sticks their troops right on the border expecting Russia to hit them >Russia doesn't launch any missiles there for a couple months >NATO starts sweating and puts even more troops on the border to force Russia's hand >Russia blows them all up at once with a nuke >Evacuates Russian civilians to the newly-gained formerly NATO territories to their South/West when Moscow enters a permanent nuclear winter >Acquires all the warm water ports they want outside of France 4D chess?
>>43811 >a nuke Why would they use a nuke, that type of situation is exactly what the FOAB/Авбпм was designed for.
>>43810 I think it's likely a Ukrainian launched s-300 missile going after an incoming Russian one that somehow wound up missing and by chance landed in Poland. But hey, can't let an opportunity like this go by. >>43811 If Alois Irlmaier is anything to go by I predict this ultimately happening >usual scum bags push hard for officially entering the war >the U.S. & U.K. make promises to those who are hesitant that everything will be fine, they'll stick through to the end, it has to be done, etc. >NATO officially enters the war >the U.S. for some reason backs out of the war soon after, ceasing almost all support and leaving Europe holding the bag >Europe is unable to maintain manufacturing, energy, and their economies without U.S. support and end up collapsing resulting in Russian blitz across Europe >someone, probably israel, nukes Europe out of spite
>>43805 >A multi-polar world is good for most of the world, but bad for the major players. I don't fear the collapse of American hegemony but I do fear BRICS becoming the new petrodollar because of the implications when China and Russia use it the same way America did but without the checks and balances. very true. Don't get me wrong, I don't want those guys to rule the world either; it wouldn't be as gay or as sanctimonious, but we'd still be screwed. I predict that BRICS will win the 2nd Cold War we're heading into, but ideally I'd like reformed remnants of GAE to survive and set limits to this. btw, I predict Saudi Arabia will replace South Africa as the S in BRICS, as SA will completely fall apart in the near future and turn into a street-shitting hellhole. >Then again the fact that the last 5-6 generations have more or less lived different lives in different worlds than the last 500-600 generations of humans scares me a whole lot more since some "technologies" necessary for a simple society over the last several thousand years have been lost in about 200 years because of hydrocarbons. As our prophet Ted Kaczynski tells us, the Industrial Revolution opened Pandora's Box (a vase in the original Greek myth). It let loose powerful new forces that transformed the world, and did both great and terrible things. I can't say it was all disastrous, since I benefit alot from things like computers/internet and modern medicine (my condition would've killed me without the latter) On the other hand, there's no denying the neurosis, oversocialization, surrogate activities, atomization, and numerous social ills we live with.
>>43797 >>43798 >isn't that a guy That, Strelok is CGI. Welcome to the Uncanny Valley. It's a woman
>>43815 >turn into
>>43814 >>the U.S. for some reason backs out of the war soon after, ceasing almost all support and leaving Europe holding the bag I don't see that happening, since both the Democrats and the Republicans are pro-war.
>>43822 >I don't see that happening, since both the Democrats and the Republicans are pro-war. They may both be pro war and anti Russia but no one jumped at the chance to use the strike in Poland yesterday as an excuse to widen the conflict and put American boots on the ground. There ain't no "Remember the Maine"/muh Pearl Harbor/muh Twin Towers kind of shit going on. Everyone seems to be kind of holding their breath. There's also some possibility that some domestic crisis could force the US to back out of a conflict or at least quit the front.
>>43762 This is either a false flag or occurred because of purposeful placement of Ukrainian facilities near the border and error in targeting.
>>43825 Russians have striked suspected foreign volunteer barracks near the polish border since the war began. What puzzles me is how that missile went so far off course. Some here surely know more about the S-300 than me, how exactly could this happen? Can that anti-air missile actually lose it's intended target, fly aimlessly 18km (?) into Poland and lock onto the first heat source it found on the ground? Or was it human error? Given how hohols burn through their manpower, what are the chances they had some tech-illiterate conscripts operate it?
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Poland is now saying there's "no conclusive evidence" who fired the missile, and Biden is saying it's "unlikely" it was from Russia. No nuclear embrace today.
>>43829 >No nuclear embrace today.
>>43829 Everyone's gangsta until it's time to do gangsta shit.
>>43762 >b me >in thread last week >start typing post about fake escalation to come in few days >run blackpill.exe >why bother.jpg >cancel posting It's all so tiresomely predictable, but why should they change the tune when the sheep always dance to it? Net result of this event: "Sorry you need to be poor so we can launder more money using weapon programs as plausible cover"
>>43831 >not knowing that the flash from a nuke is so bright that even if you turned away the light would travel through the back of your skull and project onto your cornias anyways, allowing you to see the destruction happening behind you Probably the same propaganda as telling kids to hide under their desks if the nukes come because they will be safe there
>>43828 >Lose its intended target? Yes. >Fly aimlessly 18km? Probably if it lost its intended target nad had enough fuel to burn. >Lock onto the first ground heat source? Unlikely. I could see it losing thrust from fuel running out and turning into a gravity bomb, but the chance of it hitting the grain silo allowing for an explosion instead of a random patch of dirt is like one in a million. Possible but not likely. My personal pet theory is that the Hohols really intended to launch a dirty bomb at/near Kherson to drown Vatniks, and the burgers stopped them at the last minute upon realizing what was going on/the IAEA covered it up, so this was Ukraine's next potential escalation to force the West into the war. The lack of Western response makes me think Ukraine intentionally did a false flag attack to try and force Poland to get involved because they feel like Westerners took the grain and footed them with the bill when they asked for additional weapons not realizing the grain was them taking the money and running since politicians are short-sighted and only focus on the next election.
>>43833 The thing about nukes is they have a much greater destruction radius than instant vaporization radius. Most of these measures should be done. Much like how understanding the basics of a gun fight (drop to the ground) drastically reduces your risk of dying in a gunfight as a third party, and knowing basic CPR/First Aid makes you drastically less likely to die from a fixable issue, and washing your hands makes you drastically less likely to get food borne illness, understanding some basic procedural stuff will make you significantly less likely to die or be gravely injured in a nuclear blast if you are outside the immediate death zone.
>>43829 Biden said it's unlikely to be from Russian TERRITORY. Russia can use Belarus, and is currently occupying a large chunk of Ukrainian territory. A missile not coming from their territory means absolutely nothing. To me, it seems like a Russian probing attack with plausible deniability to see how NATO will respond. Salami tactics. An anti-missile weapon losing lock, flying at least 18km in the opposite direction from where it was going(since the missiles targeting Ukrainian civilians came from Russian-occupied territory), and hitting a grain silo doesn't just happen. What anti-missile weapon is programmed to hit ground targets if it loses lock, never mind the sheer distance and heading? It seems like the official story is going to be stray anti-missile weapon, little sense as that makes. NATO cucks, and Russia will probe again and again until either NATO falls apart because there's no trust anymore or WWIII starts in earnest. At the very least, NATO should demand Russia strike no more than 100km from the border.
>>43836 >and washing your hands makes you drastically less likely to get food borne illness Actually, it's the prep/server staff that needs to do this, to keep from causing food-borne illness. This is why you never eat where niggers prepare the food. You think they'll wash their hands after taking a dump?
>>43837 >since the missiles targeting Ukrainian civilians came from Russian-occupied territory Kek. You faggots really can't help yourselves at this can you, dogwhistle-kun? :^)
>>43837 >lol, Russian Army is incompetent, they're a joke, they can't even beat Ukrainians. Their nukes are rusty and don't work >Russian Army is threat to the collective west, we should attack them and take away their nukes because they pose a threat Well...which one is it?
>>43843 Reminds me of >Russia is such a joke they can't even win against poor little Ukraine >Ukraine will win because it has the full weight of NATO behind it! fuck r9k seriously
>>43843 If even 1/1000 of their nukes work, casualties would be in the millions. Both.
>>43839 Yes, and for most people, they are themselves the "prep/server staff" of their own meals, so washing their hands will help. Not everyone eats fast food every day, burger-kun, so that shouldn't need to be clarified.
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‘The Russians mined everything’: why making Kherson safe could take years As many in Ukraine woke up on Sunday after a day of celebrating Russia’s retreat from Kherson, a team of 10 railway workers arrived at the small village of Posad-Pokrovske, for months one of the fiercest frontlines of the conflict. Their task was to repair the tracks to Mykolaiv. The route was blocked by tree branches and logs strewn across the road, placed there, they discovered later, by Ukrainian soldiers to signal hidden explosives ahead. They cleared the barricade and had driven less than 100 metres when they hit an anti-tank mine. One worker lost his legs and the others were taken to hospital. It was not an isolated incident. Just a few days before a family of four drove over a mine in liberated Novoraisk, injuring an 11-year-old child. Before the Russians withdrew, Ukrainian authorities had warned that Moscow was trying to turn Kherson into a “city of death”, but now it appears Russian soldiers turned the entire region into a minefield – potentially making it the most mined area in Ukraine and perhaps in the world. Since the Russian troops had planned the retreat, they had more time for mining and a good supplying chain to put all the explosive devices,” Tymur Pistriuha, the head of the Ukrainian Deminers Association NGO told the Guardian. “We can’t make forecasts yet, as the clearing procedure has only started, but potentially the region of Kherson could be most mined region in the country and unfortunately Ukraine could soon rank first in the world for number of casualties caused by mines.” The roads leading to Kherson, covered with the debris of war, are lined with long, red cordons and signs indicating the presence of minefields every 10 metres. Dozens of recovered mines stand in heaps, a few metres from the nearby checkpoints that now are under the control of Ukrainian forces. Meanwhile, in the country lanes, some unexploded devices stick out from the ground – waiting to be defused. The work to demine the region could take months if not years. Witnesses and military officers have told the Guardian that the Russians have left mines and tripwires everywhere. “The Russians mined everything they could,” said Oleksandr Valeriiovych, a soldier based in Posad-Pokrovske who is helping to clean up the area retaken from the Russians. “Roads, lands, bridges, houses, buildings. Everything. We find mines all the time. I’ve never seen anything like this before,” he said On Saturday, the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, during his first address after the liberation, urged Kherson residents “to be careful and not try to independently check any buildings and objects left by the occupiers”. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/16/the-russians-mined-everything-why-making-kherson-safe-could-take-years https://archive.ph/QHYA8 Even before Russia’s full-scale invasion earlier this year, deminers were facing a years-long effort to clear mines from Ukraine’s east. The country was ranked fifth in the world for civilian casualties caused by mines and in the top three for anti-vehicle mine incidents. With heavy fighting continuing in the south and east of the country, deminers are seeing more and different kinds of devices deployed by Russian forces, including butterfly mines, dubbed “petals” by the Ukrainians: small plastic anti-personnel mines that have become notorious around the globe for their ability to inflict casualties long after wars have ended. These PFM-1 mines look like toys and so are particularly dangerous for children. They are internationally outlawed but, according to Ukrainian officials, Russia is using them in its war in Ukraine, with several devices found in various conflict-ravaged regions. But the problem with mines in Ukraine is not limited to the land. The waters of the Black Sea are also infested with hundreds of mines dropped by the Russians and the Ukrainians, with Kyiv and Moscow blaming each other. The extent of the mining operations remains unknown. Their presence is also posing a serious threat to other countries that border the Black Sea. Bulgarian officials warned citizens living near the coast to watch out for mines, while Romania is working to defuse devices found in its waters. At least two mines seem to have drifted to the Turkish coast since the beginning of the invasion. Local demining experts are warning that even if the war were to end tomorrow, it will take at least a decade to clear the threat.
>>43848 The first document is from 2016 or so, and it's about Russian tactics in the Donbass, and they already wrote that mining everything to slow the enemy is part of their doctrine. Looks like they still got this down, even if the rest of fancy tactics seem to be missing. The second one is similar, but it's more about war as politics with different means. The maps at page 18 and 20 are especially relevant today. Third one is some extra I might as well throw in.
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>>43845 The duality of man. The mental gymnastics on both sides has really been something. But I gotta say that pro Ukrainian ones are top notch, and then too be way more detached from reality. Russian ones tend to doom more, therefore are more realistic when it comes to situation on ground. >>43848 Reminds me of picrel
>article 5 not activated against ukraine Thats it, officially lives of poles are worthless, any foreigner can kill as much poles as they want without suffering any consequences.
>>43853 Cannot tell if having a giggle. If yes, you got me. If no, unfortunately, accidents do not qualify as acts of war. That being said, you act like the lives of [insert any nationality here] have been worth anything to [whatever people have been in charge at whatever time in history]. Not even the jews give the lives of their fellow jews any worth and their literal religion has every other people group being cattle.
>>43848 So in other words Russia left a military target looking like Donetsk, a civilian population center. Nice.
>>43853 You will server the United European States of Germany and you will be happy!
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>>43853 >officially lives of poles are worthless
>>43853 >officially lives of poles are worthless, any foreigner can kill as much poles as they want without suffering any consequences. As it should be.
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>like 15 meters from the the place of impact was a storage with a fuckton of pure ammonium sulphate >if they hit it, there would be almost certainly nothing remaining from the rocket We were 15 meters from WWIII.
>>43863 That would have been some prime dark humor, poetic almost
>>43863 They would have bitched out regardless. No one wants WW3 and if they did we would already be fighting it.
>>43853 https://archive.ph/PdgfE Blow harder next time.
>>43865 Honestly with every day I'm more and more convinced that Ukraine is going to intentionally attack Poland or Romania in order to force them to get involved. After they got their grain shipments Europe has been steadily pulling the plug on Ukraine. The only value they have is as a debt-slave, but Russia blew up the energy infrastructure so it will take almost double to triple their current investments just to get Ukraine back on their feet right now. The oil/gas pipelines in Ukraine showed that they don't care enough to pay their debts back anyways, and the only thing of value they were providing was farmland (occupied or not producing) and cheap tech wage slaves not from India (and the tech industries of the world are collapsing under the weight of global recession).
So apparently Zelensky is still insisting that the S-300 missiles came from Russia to the point where even Western officials are getting fed up since it feeds into Russia's false flag narrative. Combined with the evidence from >>43863 I have to speculate whether Ukraine did this intentionally and if the Russians may not be lying.
war is not the answer
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Poland will not invite Ukraine to co-host missile strike investigation ARSAW, Poland — The Polish authorities will not ask Ukraine to co-host the investigation of the fatal missile strike in Poland’s south-east. Warsaw believes the strike was most likely caused by Ukrainian air defense attempting to intercept a missile fired by Russia, according to a senior Polish official. “The information we have received from the Ukrainian side is of very significant importance to us. However, it is certain that Ukraine, just like any other country, will not be the co-host of the investigation, because this is our, Polish investigation,” Paweł Soloch, an adviser to Polish President Andrzej Duda, told local broadcaster Radio Plus in an interview. Soloch said it is “in the interest of Ukraine, but also ours, and in the interest of the entire Western world, not only NATO states, that this issue does not become an issue that would impact in a way that would limit our truly close cooperation and support, that we, and the entire Western world, provide to Ukraine in its combat against the Russian invader.” The politician is a longtime aide to Duda, and was appointed by the president to serve as the head of the country’s National Security Bureau from 2015 to 2022. Last month, Duda asked Soloch to serve as his adviser. The latest announcement comes in response to declarations by Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy who has disputed the preliminary findings of the Polish government. In a statement released by his office, Zelenskyy said that Ukraine’s representatives should be allowed to access the missile strike’s site in Przewodów, a village in close proximity to the Ukrainian border. “It is fair and honest. We have the right to be in a joint investigative team. According to any norms, diplomacy, etc., especially since we are all partners,” Zelenskyy said on Nov. 16. In a statement released the following day, the Ukrainian president subsequently declared that “our specialists will go there and join this professional community.” The missile strike, in which two men were killed, took place on Nov. 15 after Russia’s military launched its largest string of attacks on Ukrainian cities in more than a month. https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2022/11/17/poland-will-not-invite-ukraine-to-co-host-missile-strike-investigation/ https://archive.ph/JNYcb
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>>43875 It's reading like a crazy ex-GF trying to get inside the house so you can't kick her out. In Poland's defense that's completely fair albeit it plays into the Russian propaganda narrative that Poland and Ukraine planned the false flag together.
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>>43853 imagine being polish
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>>43820 that makes sense. It seemed like a real female, but I was getting the uncanny feeling I usually get from trannies. >>43874 sometimes it is.
>>43873 >>43875 You know there's part of me that's beginning to think it really was a wayward Russian missile but all the NATO guys got together in a pow-wow and said "So we're all in agreement; Were not starting a nuclear war over this, right." and just blamed it on Ukraine. Because the whole purpose of this was to draw Russia into a conflict and then bleed them militarily and economically for as long as possible to defang them, not to completely end modern civilization in the northern hemisphere. Zelensky still doesn't understand that that Ukraine isn't important at all to the West except as a firebreak well and for grain. >I have to speculate whether Ukraine did this intentionally Yeah that's also possible, even likely. He's an emotional loose cannon and he's repeatedly tried to draw the west into the conflict. I hope western governments get tired of his bullshit and glownigger him soon before he actually manages to start shit.
>>43884 I've been thinking the same thing too
>>43704 The jews. However they still failed getting getting the goyim to glass each other over a AA missile in landing Poland
>>43884 The public statements about how it was probably Ukrainian rather than Russian came so fast it's conspicuous. I can't think of any other incident in this conflict where NATO was so quick to openly distance themselves from Ukrainian claims. I think it's pretty certain it really was a Ukrainian missile, but something went on behind the scenes.
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>>43820 >>43797 >>43798 >>43881 For the virgins out there, that is a real girl. She is a cosplayer that went under the name jumpsuitedmonster 6-8 years ago. She is eastern european, but I don't speak slav runes so don't know where she ended up. I want to say she was ruskie, which is rather ironic. God I feel old, this is ancient history from cuckchan. >>43863 >>43886 Honestly this seems like an actual accident, or the hohols trying to be sneaky. If this was intentional by NATO, they would have made sure the evidence of the missile was wiped out, or pointed more strongly to russia.
>>43863 Ammonium sulphate ≠ ammonium nitrate. Ammonium sulphate is not explosive, or even flammable.
>>43881 >but I was getting the uncanny feeling I usually get from trannies. Same. It's completely understandable when the artist goes for so-called 'hyperrealism'. It invariably turns into something else, short of millions of bucks invested (as in the case of the Benjamin Button movie starring totally-real-do-not-steal Brad Pitt). >>43888 >God I feel old, this is ancient history from cuckchan. Lol. In honor of your tips I'll simply point out that the previous image in question is a 3D CGI, of the 3DPD you mention.
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>>43888 >God I feel old, this is ancient history from cuckchan. Time sure flies.
>>43877 >plays into the Russian propaganda narrative that Poland and Ukraine planned the false flag together. Eh, it's the same propaganda either way: joint investigation -> it's a conspiracy to cover up the truth; working alone -> clandestinely removing evidence. >>43884 >Zelensky still doesn't understand that that Ukraine isn't important at all to the West except as a firebreak I think he understands full well hence his spergouts. >>43887 >a Ukrainian missile, but something went on behind the scenes. I think the simplest explanation - a stray AA missile - is the most likely one. The fact that it hit some farm building is at the same time seem unlikely enough and also random enough to reconcile. if that doesn't mkae sense drink booze until it does, worked for me >>43889 >Ammonium sulphate is not explosive, or even flammable. So did the rocket land in spicy stuff or not?
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>>43893 >So did the rocket land in spicy stuff or not? It didn't land in it anyway. >spicy I looked up the fire diamond for it. It's not particularly scary.
>>43894 > Ammonium sulfate.png Hmm >>43889 leaf is actually right, "saletra amonowa" in kurwa translates to "ammonium nitrate" which spiced up Beirut pretty good.
>>43902 >spiced up Beirut pretty good. I am certain it was the jews bombing something, because the media didn't add to the fact it happened 3 more times in different parts of the city and country. It probably was an ammo depot, even a major politician died/disappeared in the attack.
>>43903 It's Lebanon. Corruption and negligence are completely adequate explanations on their own. They let the ship itself, that the ammonium nitrate came in on, sit in the port so long at rusted through and sank there; the warehouse full of its cargo sitting there improperly stored for years (and it was on record being complained about long beforehand) is 100% believable.
>>43902 Oh well that changes things.
>>43902 >>43905 I assumed anon's translation as "sulphate" was correct, and the comparison to nitrate explosions was the mistake, meaning the warehouse wasn't a big deal after all. But the Polish text, at least, really does say it was nitrate. That changes things a bit. Landing 15 meters from a warehouse of inert farm chemicals is nothing, but landing 15 meters from a nitrogen bomb is a significant coincidence. Assuming the Polish text is, itself, correct.
apparently, Russia is replacing the warheads on surplus missiles and using them as decoys against Ukraine's anti-air defenses: https://southfront.org/russian-military-tricked-ukrainian-air-defenses-with-soviet-cruise-missiles-converted-to-decoys/
Odessa region has 70% of customers remain without electricity, the vast majority of consumers have electricity for about two hours a day according to the Odessa regional military administration
>>43904 >Corruption and negligence are completely adequate explanations on their own. Depots exploding violently 4 times in a month when nothing happened years before and after is highly suspicious, especially when the country was having a societal peak in inconformity due to the escalating economical crisis of their own along with Hamas and Christian Party leaders dying in the collateral damage. But i can understand someone thinking that isn't the case with all the food processing plants in the US exploding out of nowhere for a couple of years now, 100% believable cohencidences.
>>43908 I love seeing the discrepancies in news. Western media is reporting it as proof Russia is practicing nuclear strikes on Kiev then how Russia is finally out of missiles like it was months ago. https://archive.ph/KzzIa >Meanwhile, three United States officials told CNN on Thursday that there is concern that U.S. stockpiles won't be able to meet Ukrainian demands going into the winter. But if anything, this war is depleting everyone but China's stockpile of weapons.
>>43910 >says the spic
>>43875 Why the hell would you even consider inviting a suspect to investigate a murder scene? Though I think my country has reached peak clown with this. Whoever it was, we won't probably ever know anyway. But at the very least our government could have put up a security buffer zone into Ukraine.
>>43911 China's weapons don't even work and they're too busy pointing them at India.
Had a boomer tell me on Thursday that "it's Russia's fault Ukraine had to launch S-300 missile systems" and that he sided with Trudeau because "top-level officials aren't allowed to have private conversations unless they're countries that [I like]." When I explained that would start a war and most of the population would die, he gleefully wanted one knowing he wouldn't have to fight in it. I used to say that with age comes wisdom, but at this point can we just line anyone over 40 against a wall and if they believe BlueAnon or QAnon bullshit, shoot them on sight? At least that way I get social security when I'm an old fart.
>>43923 >it's Russia's fault Ukraine had to launch S-300 missile systems I really am not a fan of hohols, but it's true that they had to launch that to intercept a vatnik missile, so it's hard to blame them for this. Worst you could say is that they should have make sure it won't hit a tractor at a very sparsely populated area of Poland that mostly consists of woodland and fields.
>>43924 I mean at this point if they want to call it an accident that's fine with me. My main beef is with him and others saying "it's Russia's fault" in the sense that "we should hold Russia accountable for Ukraine's fuckups" instead of just accepting that unfortunate accidents 15 feet away from WWIII happen.
>>43906 I dont know how I could get this shit wrong. Sorry for the confussion. Gomen.
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>>43923 Old men go full on retarded when they convince themselves they can't learn anymore. I experienced it myself having to work under a boomer. Especially when it comes to politics. They were raised on tv and are often too stupid to not just mindlessly believe what ever a news authority tells them.
>>43930 Explain the pic
>>43908 >replacing the warheads on surplus missiles and using them as decoys What's the point of replacing active warheads with dummies? Wouldn't explosives be the first thing to go stale, what's the point of saving the old warhead then, may as well just lop it toward the enemy.
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>>43933 honestly not sure, maybe they've got some other use for old warheads, but I'm not familiar.
>>43933 Traditionally a warhead is the most expensive part of a missile.
>>43935 >second webm Kek, I laughed more than is should have.
>>43545 >Ukrainians are defending European values Ahh yes, the European values of buttsex and miscegenation.
>>43815 >SA will completely fall apart in the near future and turn into a street-shitting hellhole. With a GAE collapse, the Afrikaners would end up running it again.
>>43946 >the Afrikaners would end up running it again Speaking of, can someone /k/pill me on Rhodesians? Why exactly did the world try and murder them if South African apartheid was the worse one of the two?
>>43948 Strelok, please, look at the name of this thread and then look at the catalog and ask yourself is there is a better thread for this particular question.
>>43948 >Rhodesians Short version: UK: give control to the holy blacks we now worship thanks to thew guidance of our best buddy America in our totally-not-a-cult of Progress, Freedom, and Democracy! Rhodies: uh, no, we don't want them in charge of us and what we built from nothing. This is our home. UK & USA: *angry autistic screeching*
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>>43948 >wat is ruhdesia >redbill bls Not your personal army nigger
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>>43944 Cute! Thanks, anon!
>>43948 Try asking in any of the African-related threads or make one about Rhodesia.
>>43953 >>43944 I want to go back to the good old times when Russian memes didn't feel like a cope.
>>43957 I mean that before the Russians were advancing and destroying the Ukrainians, so you could make a cute buhanka drawing and feel good about it, while now the Russians have been on the back foot for months so posting that stuff is almost embarrassing, like trying to compensate. I want the Russians to attack and start capturing cities and encircling Ukrainians to have art like pic related again.
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>>43958 The Russians suck at the propaganda war yeah, but it's not a cope to say they have been on the "winning" side this entire conflict. You can be disappointed with their recent losses and still recognize that they have control over almost the entirety of Donbass, the entirety of the Sea of Azov turning it from international waters into Russian territorial water, and that losses that are considered "unacceptable" for Russia are a "slow day" for the Ukrainians. Attrition is just boring. Cope looks like this: https://smugloli.net/support/res/12178.html Anyways if some new meme doesn't take over Punished Buhanka-chan will be back with a vengeance more than likely.
>>43960 Sure, I'd agree that the Russians are winning, but still, they need to get their shit back in order and make that clear, not just for the memes but also to actually win the war
>>43958 offensives are costly. the boring slog of artillery shooting to shit everything that moves is the most likely affair for now. if there will be anything, i expect movement in the south of donetsk region going towards kurakhove.
>>43962 Guess so, but that was the rhetoric back from before Kharkov and see where we are now, a long slow war is not really in the Russian interest either, if Ukraine shows it can beat the Russians the west will continue sending help and in the long run years western help for Ukraine will dwarf Russian resources. The time for a big offensive is soon, after months of Ukrainians offensives and NATO help the lowest it's been, plus all the infrastructure damage that will make Ukrainian logistics a nightmare.
>>43963 i think you under estimate the russian's capacity to continue this war. they can outproduce the west in its entirety in keeping their guys equip with weapons and ammo. despite this, i doubt anybody would say a slow war is in russia's interest. it only suits the americans. russia has the time to do what it needs to do while matching its own timetable. there is no need to rush into any offensive.
>>43964 >they can outproduce the west in its entirety in keeping their guys equip with weapons and ammo I seriously doubt it, NATO's military industry is way bigger than Russia's, they only need a fraction of that to supply Ukraine and keep it in the fight bleeding Russia dry, they've been having issues sure but they can fix those in the long run if there's one. And they will continue to supply Ukraine if it shows it can fight Russia, which is what they've been doing. Russia does have time yes, but not infinite and some decent victories will buy it more. Of course, take all i'm saying with a grain of salt.
>>43965 i disagree.
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>>43961 I just don't understand what the Russians are expected to win at this point I guess. To me, victory would be Russians taking the rest of the highlighted border in pic related. Kharkiv or Odessa would be a nice bonus objective, but this is what they need to take to call this war a success. I'd like to remind anon it took the Russians 20 years to conquer Chechnya so they aren't afraid of long wars of attrition. Anyway does anon want to play a game? 3rd pic related.
>>43964 >They can outproduce the west in its entirety I have doubts about that. If America, France, Germany, Poland, and Canada wanted to they could jumpstart their economy into a wartime economy and outproduce Russia in about 6 months to a year in order to supply Ukraine. There's just a greater agenda to make everyone own nothing and eat the bugs.
>>43966 Time will tell i guess >>43967 >Chechnya Didn't have the weight of the collective west behind them though
>>43968 there is a reason why russia pressed the issue of ukraine when it did. (besides the offensive ukraine was preparing.) we have just gone through an economically devastating last few years and are about to catch the tailwind of our idiotic monetary policy. the recession we are about to go through will be miserable; going ahead to hitch onto our troubles that of ukraine, with the very likely probability that we will get nothing out of it, is not in our interests.
>>43953 >Cute! y-you too >>43955 >>43958 It sucks that the war slowed down, I wouldn't call it cope though, I'd call it shitpost. Cope would be if Russians acted like they're advancing like they were in the beginning. >>43960 >Punished Buhanka-chan will be back with a vengeance more than likely. Tell you what, if when Russians start advancing again, we're gonna make a new Buhanka Chan. any ideas?
>>43971 >spoiler Grizzled Buhanka with tally marks on her bumper smoking a cig
>>43939 yes, and if it's not degraded, I suppose they could repurpose it. >>43945 that's one reason this war is high stakes >>43946 entirely possible! I assumed that GAE would survive defeat in Ukraine for at least a little while. >>43960 this. Russia has achieved its phase I objectives (most of donbass, land bridge to crimea), and has shifted into phase II with its dismantling of the electric grid, mobilization, attrition, etc. I expect to see more fireworks in the winter.
Seems like the Populist Republicans are going to force the Republicuck warhawks to acquiesce on Ukraine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzTpeA8nGg0
>>43971 >Spoiler Could go the Buhanka-chan being a schoolteacher for a bunch of Donetsk kids with a missing leg or something and a Russian flag in the background, maybe her headpatting some Luhansk conscript crying. For a more shitposty one maybe her headpatting the crying Luhansk conscript while some kinda missile-chan flies overhead towards a pork farm.
>>43975 How? They lost the midterms. Only Vance won by a depressed margin. It is not 2003. The American public is even dumber than it already was 20 years ago. They will support any war.
>>43912 lol nice gaslighting you golem, at least our milk processing plants don't explode, just our meth labs.
Some news from DPA: >ukraine admits almost half of their power infrastructure is kill >ukraine trying to launch attacks along the oskil front, russia claims they're being repulsed >opytne south of adiivka has been taken by the russians, confirmed by both sides >russia launching attacks mainly around bakhmut and pushing out of donetsk >captured a fortified ukrainian artillery position directly west of pisky >T-72 hit by javelin and lives due to ERA, consistent with earlier ukrainian claims of javelins not destroying vehicles in one hit It's back to Ukraine throwing bodies at Russian lines without much support. But with how many more soldiers Russia has deployed now It doesn't look to be enough. I expect constant mobilization drives this coming winter for Ukraine. >>43933 My guess is so they can shoot them wildly without too much concern for civilian casualties. >>43965 >NATO's military industry is way bigger than Russia's You mean the U.S's military industry is bigger than Russia. NATO will need lend lease 2.0 to sustain Europe in a war with Russia, not just with equipment but food and energy. As of now the U.S. MIC won't tool up for increased production because none of them are sure there will be a war to justify the tooling costs. And increased energy demand will make already high energy prices nearly unaffordable.
Apparently Ukraine can't hold Kherson either because there's no food, water, or electricity in the sea of mines and artillery shelling. Russians have started considering attacking Ukrainian gas facilities. They also apparently attacked the Motor Sich factories (the CEO Ukraine arrested a few months ago for selling refurbished engines from downed aircraft back to the Russians). This is a pretty big deal since the factory also produced most of Ukraine's gas turbine engines. Sounds like the Russians are prepping to strike dual-use civilian factories before too much longer. Reports of protests in Odessa about the power outages. The worst part is Russia is just keeping the energy infrastructure in constant limbo right now. Just enough that Ukraine doesn't have a crisis but not enough to prevent troop movements. You can interpret that as planning for a winter offensive or incompetence at your leisure. Russian missile producers claiming they can "make them like pancakes" when asked. Russians seem to be putting in orders for more hypersonic missiles suggesting they either expect the war to escalate or they expect the war to continue for some time. They've only officially launched 1 (unofficially 3 or 4 I think) in Ukraine so far and it royally fucked up a military base. Turkey shitting itself from Russia producing and using Drones in larger quantities than them. They seem to be tightening their economic ties to Russia in order to placate them. In other news, Russia is bitching about PoWs being murdered after they had that massive prisoner swap recently. China was pretty heavily invested in Motor Sich, but apparently they've been swapping to American companies for copying marine turbine designs so civilian-side they're pissed but on the government-side nobody cares.
>>43980 >China was pretty heavily invested in Motor Sich Motor Sich got nationalized recently which pissed off Chinese investors royally and I think it was what gave Russia carte blanche to finally destroy it without the chance to draw ire from their Chinese friendos.
>>43977 >How? Budgetary power lies with the House of Representatives. There's too many Populist Republicans to keep them out of the budgetary process. They effectively have the war hawks by the balls. >Congress has 14 days to respond to MTG's demands for a mini-audit >If they do, they have to send it to a sub-committee that MTG will be on and have access to the information come January >If they don't , they have to send it to the floor for a vote >She's already said she'll demand a rolecall right before Christmas (forcing congressmembers on Christmas vacation to come back to congress and put their vote on record) >If they do this, she can come back to it in January now with blackmail/dirt on the Republicucks who voted no It's not a huge threat but it's enough to have congressional leaders sweating. >They lost the mid-terms They won the house. That's all that particularly matters right now.
>>43979 >Opytne south of adiivka has been taken by the russians, confirmed by both sides Not a terrific win unless they take what I believe is an abandoned quarry to the North-West of the town since they're in direct line of fire for Ukrainian artillery. >captured a fortified ukrainian artillery position directly west of Pisky A much bigger deal since if the Russians push a couple more kilometers they can put the Ukrainian trenches between Netailove and Krasnahorivka into a pseudo-encirclement.
>>43972 That sounds rather... lewd >>43976 I like the second one, will keep in mind. >>43983 I wonder if Ukrainians managed to establish defense in depth. Initiative is still in UAF hands, so they might not have payed much attention to it. However, they have been facing a rather anemic Russian force when in comes to numbers in the past, but there's some new 300K boots on the ground now. If Russia manages to do good old force concentration in combination with recon-pull/command-push they actually might make some progress in the future. But I doubt newly mobilized men will have the same aptitude for offense like the Russian army had before they got bogged down. Alternatively, they can use new men to hold the line while they reshuffle more experienced men for offensive duty. Either way, it feels like UAF is running out of steam right now. Their offensives at Kremmena have been constantly getting beat down. Can't exactly do thunder run tactics when you're facing a resistance that doesn't consist of sporadic platoon strength outpost. Still, we might see one more serious UAF offensive aimed towards Melitopol from Zaporozhie before the year's up.
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>>43944 >no qt buhanka to do special operations with
>>43984 >But I doubt newly mobilized men will have the same aptitude for offense like the Russian army had before they got bogged down Do we any reliable reports coming from them? I remember western media running some stories how they were sent to the frontline without any training and equipment, but we all know how reliable anything coming from legacy media really is nowadays. >that vid Do we know where was it taken? Is it just CGI? Psychological warfare? An old video randomly republished? I wanna beleeeb!
>>43985 We're here just to suffer, aren't we? >>43986 >Do we any reliable reports coming from them? Personally, I only know what I've gathered trough telegram, it tends to be good source of information if you're following correct channels and know how to filter. I tend not to keep an close eye on western/Ukrainian media because it's constant 'Russia bad' business as usual. Anyway, so far it's been mixed bag. Some are getting very good accommodation and training, while others are trained by litteral charlatans with run down buildings for shelter. Which is strange because there's obvious and clear solutions to this, but they're either not thinking about them or not giving a fuck in officers quarters. There was also a fuss about a video of a mobilized men having a go at an officer because the men demanded an acceptable training and officers was not giving it to them. There has also been an increase of more specialized roles such as UAV operator, but they're having a problem of supplying sufficient numbers of drones to the troops, most of them are being crowd funded, except things like Lancet which have seen an exponential increase of usage. This might be Russian MIC finally unfucking themselves. Other than that, I feel there has been a shift in collective Russian psychology for the better, they realized SHTF and now they're accepting a reality of a long war. But this is subjective opinion, I got nothing to back it up. >Do we know where was it taken? Is it just CGI? Psychological warfare? An old video randomly republished? I wanna beleeeb! Allegedly this was taken recently at a training ground, with the men walking alongside the tank being freshly mobilized men. No idea if they're practicing maneuvers for deployment of T-14 to the battlefield or this is just business as usual training and maybe some sort of morale boost for new forces. Fuck you R9K let me fucking post
Should've asked this months ago but how similar are Russian, Ukrainian and Belarusian culture. I know the languages are closer to each other than Scandinavia's but how close is the history relating to events and geography? When did Belarus and Ukraine come into their own as they're known today and how did they see themselves prior to the intellectual sphere of nationalism and sovereignty.
>>43994 >When did Belarus and Ukraine come into their own as they're known today During occupation by western powers like Lithuania/Poland/Austro-Hungary etc.
>>43994 They're basically the "same thing." In the case of both Belarus and Ukraine >Be effectively autonomous buffer regions between Eastern Orthodox and Protestant Christians that the Russian Empire lays claim to >Soviets start gaining power >Communists put ideology above reality and try to genocide Christians >"wtf we're German now" >Germans roll through without much resistance because ideology doesn't matter when your home country wants to genocide you >Soviet Union wins >"wtf we're not being genocided by godless savages, fuck off with that shit, Communist Russia" >Form independent nations >Repeatedly >Eventually kowtow to USSR in theory but not in practice >Russia stops being Communist >"Alright we can be friends again but we're no longer part of the Russian Empire." >Become sovereign pseudo-parts of the new Russian Empire >One of them gets uppity (Ukraine) >You are here
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>>43704 >winning Ukraine, especially since Russia just went up and left Kherson to reinforce elsewhere. Russia has lost the initiative, while Ukraine still has not gained the upper hand yet, they are now the ones who are on the offense (even if it's a slow and grinding one) while Russia has been on the backfoot ever since Kharkiv. Pretty demoralizing if you ask me. >>43961 >the Russians are winning I'd believe it if they somehow pulled something instead of just giving up Kherson to the Ukies. No, the bleak fact is that the Russians have been dealt a terrible blow after blow in the past few months. Things just won't get any better for the Russians if they can't even push back the Ukrainian offensive in Bakhmut. I just hope this retreat is worth it in the future.
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>>43961 >the Russians are winning >retreats from Kherson without a fight >winning
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>>43998 Hm, let's see how much Russian territory Ukraine is occupying right now. Now let's look at how much Ukrainian territory Russia is occupying right now. Now depending on what you consider what, Russia is either winning or losing.
>>44000 By this logic Germany in 1944 was clearly winning
>>44001 True, but i don't think either side is there yet, i'd say it's anyone's game, saying one side is winning outright is pushing it.
>>44000 Ukraine is fighting a defensive war, they don't care about occupying Russian territory. They want to push them back to their fucking hole and, if possible, retake the LPR, DPR, and Crimea.
>>43998 >Without a fight I don't see Ukraine able to actively hold the city because of the mining and shelling.
>>44003 And yet all they've accomplished is losing a city bigger than Kherson by population along with access to one of the seas they previously had a land route to and lost the initiative in their offensives. Definitely sounds like winning.
>>44006 When was that accomplished though? quite a while ago
>>44007 Exactly. It's been quite a while and it's still lost.
>>44008 True, but the question is "who's winning now?" as >>44001 points out, by 1944 Germany still help more territory than it started with, still held most of Germany, but there's no doubt it was losing by that point. No i don't think Russia is at that point, not at all.
>>44009 I think that's just something lost in translation. If by winning anon means "the war" then it's Russia. If by winning anon means "who has the initiative?" the answer was Ukraine but is currently "nobody."
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>>44001 >>44003 >>44010 Basically what I meant with that post is making a silly joke. Though I guess you could expand that to "Country A considers this to be its territory" and "Country B considers that to be its territory". So, since Ukraine is not occupying any Russian territory, it's losing... and since Russia is not occupying the territory it claims it owns, it's losing.
>>44014 >russia is losing because they lost all momentum and are losing ground (they just conquered). >ukraina is losing because they are losing so much men even french generals in WW I would flinch. >america is losing because they are bankrupting themselves throwing money into a black hole >europe is losing because they lost access to cheap russian energy which will lead to them returning to the stone age in a matter of years (2) >nato is losing because they dumped all of their already meager stock after decades of budget cuts into ukraine, losing, at this point irreprecable equipment. >africa is losing because of lack of cheap wheat >switzerland is losing because they sacrificed their neutrality to virtue signal, forever losing their reputation as a safe haven for rich shady types >finland is losing because they lost their neutrality for no benefit tp themselves >poland lost because its lost its ethnic purity via invasion of state subsidized animals from wild fields, lost its army for empty american promises, lost its economy to russian embargo they imposed by themselves, lost.... >internauts lost because of all encompassing shills spreading pro-ukrainian propaganda backed by infinite american funds
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>>44015 >america is losing because they are bankrupting themselves throwing money into a black hole Well ain't that a throwback.
>>44016 >Grilled chicken sandwich >7 bucks Goddamn that was expensive even back then, 15 years ago
>>44015 America is losing because Saudi Arabia is working with the Russians now. We're seeing the sunken cost fallacy in real time where the only ones "winning" are the ones refusing to play the game. India, South-East Asia, and the Middle East are making bank on this war minus inflated wheat prices because they've refused to get involved in geobolidics.
>>44017 Today that would cost you $10 if it was half-decent. That's a bargain.
>>44009 most of Europe* >>44015 You're making too much sense, call me a fag but sometimes i do think we should be conquering the stars instead of bombing each other.
>>44017 >>44019 What year was it? From the Iraq War "Freedom Fries" thing I assume 2003. A random online inflation calculator says $6.79 then works out to $11.00 on the dot today. Looking at the nearest fast food places to me, a grilled chicken sandwich in a medium-size combo from Wendy's is $16.20 leafbucks, or $12 USD. From Popeye's it'd be C$13.50, or $10 USD. So $11 that would be right in the range of what I'd expect today.
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>>44022 2003 when France refused to enter the war yes. Take a look at prices from the 70's, which were considered to be high at the time due to stagflation.
Poland has agreed to install MIM-104 Patriots at the border.
>>44024 Poland's recent developments have made me wonder what has been happening (if anything) among the other countries neighboring Ukraine (Romania, Hungary, Slovakia). Has there been any sort of military movements among them recently? I follow these threads on and off so if this has already been discussed I apologize.
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>>44023 it hurts
>>43996 >Form independent nations >Repeatedly >Eventually kowtow to USSR in theory but not in practice When exactly did this happen?
>>43974 >Russia has achieved its phase I objectives Except they haven't, they don't even control all of the new de-jure Russian territory at this point - I'd call this the bare minimum for success. And this phase 2 (or 3?) is more like a plan-B. >>43979 >My guess is so they can shoot them wildly without too much concern for civilian casualties. How considerate. Quick, instant death in explosion or building collapse? No. We'll systematically dismantle your infrastructure and you can slowly freeze and starve to death over the coming days/weeks/months.
>>44023 >>44026 They also didn't have access to most technologies we do today, were still a largely cash-based society, and minimum wage was under $3/hour.
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So is Russia deescalating its "denazification" rhetoric too?
>>44032 >and minimum wage was under $3/hour. By that menu, a Big Mac, fries, and a drink comes to $1.06. So let's round it to 25 minutes at a minimum wage of "under" $3/hour. Minimum wage in the US is $7.25, so 25 minutes would be $3.02. Can you buy a Big Mac combo for $3 today? Let's take the average US minimum wage rather than federal, $11.80 (That is, the average wage made by workers who are minimum wage for their jurisdiction). That would make 25 minutes worth $4.92. Can you buy a Big Mac for $4.92? Comparing wages goes hand in hand with comparing buying power.
>When exactly did this happen? For Belarus they became part of the Russian empire in the late 1700s and then the Germans took them over in WWI before they became an independent warring state quickly changing governments between the Poles, Russians, Natives, and Lithuanians up until about the 1950s when the BSSR finally established itself as a Russian vassal state until they went "independent" in the 90s with Lukashenko being king "president" ever since. For Ukraine it was pretty much the same story (part of the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth, swapped hands a half-dozen times and wound up with the Russians, officially became part of the Russian empire in the late 1700s). Ukraine broke off from the Russian empire in WWI to fight for the Germans, then had a war with the Poles, then had a bunch of rebellions during the intermittent years before siding with the Germans again in WWII. Post-WWII they eventually kowtowed to the USSR in the late 1950s, but didn't enjoy as much autonomy as Belarus did for various reasons.
>>44034 Federal minimum wage might be that, but on a state level it's around $15/hourly. And in places that still use federal minimum wage as the state minimum wage, a big mac combo is between $4-$6 outside of big cities. I don't eat McDicks but the price of a bacon cheeseburger here from a local burger shop has tracked with minimum wage pretty consistently over the last 30 years.
>>44031 Phase-1 objectives were securing a land bridge to Crimea and securing the cities of Donetsk and Luhansk. It's not a 1:1 but they've more or less achieved that (Ukraine has been unable to use artillery strikes on a whim for a few months now). Phase II and Phase III have become a weird amalgamation where they are doing both at once. >>44033 Russia's never called for Zelensky's removal, they've just stated they won't renew the gas deal so long as an "anti-Russian" government is in power. That's the entire reason Zelensky ramped up the artillery strikes giving Russia an excuse to invade in the first place.
>>44019 In Tucson a good grilled chicken sandwich was 6 bucks last time i went, 3 years ago, ate only half because the other guy wanted all the fries ("deli chicken sandwich") Mind you it was a very humble looking place that smelled like tobacco and moisture but food was decent enough, drinks were expensive have to say. We'll have to define what "decent" is, for me it is to have cold cracking lettuce without being frozen and a juicy piece of chickun, the cheese i don't mind as long as it doesn't stink like stale gorgonzola or feels like american yellow "cheese"; bread has to be slightly toasted without being dusty. >>44022 I consider myself greedy and i think 100 jumping pesos for a grilled chicken sandwich with fries is a lot, which is 5 dollars. A shop near me sells them for 80 i think and i still prefer to buy 3 beef tamali which is 2.50 ameridoos. >fast food places KFC sells a pretty good chicken burger with jumbo fries and powder soda for 7 dollars, but the downside is that the big fried chicken piece has enough chemicals in the breading that will make you dizzy after eating it, punched-in-the-temple kind of dizzy but only lasts for 15 seconds so it is safe to eat :^) For context in pre-pandemic times that "Big Krunch" burger was 4.50 dollars, obviously our local economy despite being fucked slightly it is cheaper than in the US but i expected prices from two decades ago to be more accessible there, must be pricing from one of those food trucks parked in their rural carnival events, the kind that fry soda ice cubes and butter sticks. >>44023 >33 cents >28 cents >46 cents Oh so that's how the penny coins were used for.
>>44036 >a big mac combo is between $4-$6 outside of big cities Interesting. In my area, rural fast food joints have tended to charge slightly more than those in cities despite being lower-income, presumably because being more remote means less competition. But as prices have risen that seems to have gone away and now the difference is negligible, at less than 1%. Of course, both were always far less than places like airports or university campuses, and I'm only comparing to a mid-size city, not huge ones like Vancouver or Toronto. For reference, a Big Mac combo here is roughly 50 minutes at minimum wage (C$12.70 at a C$15.50/hr wage, equivalent to US$9.45 and US$11.53/hr), so twice the time-cost of the 70s menu. But then, that's a US menu, and for all I know the differences in price between countries might have been like this even back then.
Apparently Ukraine is shelling the Enerhodar plant again. The IAEA is refusing to say that it's Ukraine doing it undermining their credibility once again.
>>44039 in 2005 you could buy large Cappuccino or lattes for $2-3 at starbucks now it's like $5 or $6 a drink I don't know why would anyone buy overpriced coffee
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>>44040 "It's Russia's fault that Ukraine blew up a nuclear plant!" - Retards
>>44031 >How considerate. Quick, instant death in explosion or building collapse? No. We'll systematically dismantle your infrastructure and you can slowly freeze and starve to death over the coming days/weeks/months. The first one leaves dead martyrs that can bu used for propaganda. The second one leaves a bunch of pissed, desperate people that might decide to lynch their government or become a flood of refugees into western Europe. >>44040 >>44045 So what's the chance that the Ukes are finally going to end up popping that thing and fucking their entire country? Maybe The Comedian has decided to fully channel his inner Jew and reenact Masada but on a country wide basis.
Been seeing increase in videos of Ukrainians executing Russian POW's. Just in Makiivka few days ago, they executed dozen of Russian soldiers, and today new videos popped up. Can't imagine this won't backfire for them.
>>44048 Send em And yes, it will have bad consequences for Ukraine, this ironically raises Russian troop moral and they will be less likely to just surrender, since it would be a choice between death by shot or death by pig
>>44048 Ukrainebros are getting too cocky
>>44050 The smaller one is 30mb so I can't post it on /k/afe. I'm sure you'd be able to find larger one if you search Makiivka execution or something. The location in the smaller video is unknown so I only have telegram videos which I can't post due to size. >>44051 I mean, don't constantly call on Russians to surrender, then post videos of their execution , it's a bit contradictive innit?. At least be consistent with your war crimes. War criminals should have standards. but at least Russians posted videos of them treating Ukrainian POW's good as a response.... dumb bastards.
>>44052 Scale the resolution with FFmpeg.
I'm in the subway and there was this finngol slav girl watching a Mercouris stream on her phone. Should've stopped her and invited her for a drink and have long geopolitical discussions.
>>44047 >So what's the chance that the Ukes are finally going to end up popping that thing and fucking their entire country? Pretty low unless they do something so overtly blatant that even Western powers will smack them silly. They're still insisting the Poland missile thing was Russian to the point where even their supporters are telling them to cut the shit. Zelensky has been caught lying about "turning down" non-existent temporary peace treaties. >>44045 The IAEA's response has basically been "Russia is being irresponsible holding onto the nuclear plant" while Russia has been quietly gritting their teeth waiting for the IAEA to dig a hole deep enough that they can't get out if it so that they can justify making a counter-agency with their allies to serve the same role (or perhaps just ignore them outright).
>>44048 >Take no prisoners to try to scare conscripts into fleeing >Forget they are also slavs >Surprised pikachu face when this makes them double down and absolutely refuse surrender Ahh, Ukraine. This war is too good for you. Russia won't even sustain a proper energy infrastructure attack only enough to make an invasion strike easier when the weather stabilizes...
Some Russian prankster was impersonating Macron and spoke to Poland's MP Duda about the polish missile, the call lasted 7 and 1/2 minutes. Why do western leaders have terrible OPSEC and why do they keep falling for this bullshit?
>>44058 So what did they discuss? Did the Russian prankster post it?
>>44059 UH I can't find it, it is probably somewhere on telegram but it's circulating on the news. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russian-prankster-impersonating-macron-spoke-polands-duda-after-blast-2022-11-22/
>>44051 why do you cuckchanners insist on making your presence obvious?
>>44058 >>44059 Is that the same group that went around prank-calling european capital mayors and the german(?) chancellor earlier this year?
>>44061 No idea what you mean
>>44063 Anons just picking a fight for the sake of picking a fight over memes he doesn't like.
>>44063 He means the fact that that post looks like it came straight from cuckchan.
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>>44054 Be a lot cooler if you'd just called me a liar so I don't have to go trough all of the hassle. those videos are legit out there. I honestly recommend telegram, it's constant stream of videos, pictures and information, you just have to take everything with a grain of salt >>44057 Well, ironically Kherson is now far, far worse off under Ukranians. No fresh water, sewage, power or heat, and Ukrainians have issued subpoenas to every man left in Kherson. Russians maintained all of the utilities and deliveries of food and medicine, untill Antonovsky Bridge got 404d. And even then they supplied necessities trough barges and pontoons. I bet some of the people from Kherson are having a second thought. Granted, Russians are the reason there was a fight for the city anyway. Anyway, been reading that most of Russian military industry has been massively activated lately. Took them months to iron out the kinks. First picture taken from one such complex at Omsk. The furnaces are firing and assembly line has been rolling 24/7. I for one, am excited for return of industrial warfare.
>>44058 >>44059 >>44060 >>44062 I've found this >Russian trolls Vovan and Lexus pretended to be Macron and talked with Polish President Duda about the fallen rocket. >"Emmanuel, believe me, I'm extremely careful. I don't blame the Russians. Do you think I need a war with Russia? No. I don't want that," he said in a conversation. >After all this, an excuse from Duda's office immediately appeared on Twitter.
>>44066 Because it has a joke? >>44068 >Russian military industry has been massively activated lately I'd be excited too but at this point i'm not sure how much i can trust any of that, i do believe the Russians are realizing the shit they started is for real and are gonna take it more seriously now, but this kind of stuff can still be easily faked See Goebbels tank parades I hope we'll see results on the ground soon, until then i wont get my hopes up.
>>44070 Because it has a low effort normie macro. >>44068 Don't know why, but those pictures do look kind of cool. Kherson is probably worse off, because it has become a bombing target for Russia again. It's war, so whatever.
>>44070 Low-effort normalfag meme image, low effort normalfag meme text. Even without the image, the "-bros" thing screams cuckchan.
>>44056 >The IAEA's response has basically been "Russia is being irresponsible holding onto the nuclear plant" while Russia has been quietly gritting their teeth waiting for the IAEA to dig a hole deep enough that they can't get out if it so that they can justify making a counter-agency with their allies to serve the same role (or perhaps just ignore them outright Of course its russias fault. If they did not give ukrainians the technology there would be no nuclear plants to blow up. simple >>44072 Could be worse, could be from /tv/chan.
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>>44070 Lurk for 2 years.
>>44070 Post more funny jokes and make anon cry about it.
Okay friends we are striding a bot too far from the topic of the thread, please calm your autism.
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>>44069 >That thick Russian accent on Мацрон This is saturday morning cartoon tier, I hope for Poland's sake that this is just some elaborate troll >>44079 Do you have the upper astral autism picture and the one where the guy gets a moment of clarity?
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Ukraine slams Viktor Orbán over nationalist scarf https://archive.ph/qaxT3 >The map of ‘Greater Hungary’ upset Kyiv and Bucharest. >Ukraine said Tuesday it would summon Hungary’s ambassador to Kyiv over a football scarf worn by Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán that displayed a map of “Greater Hungary,” which includes parts of present-day Ukraine.Ukraine’s Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba said that Orbán’s neckwear was a “promotion of revisionism ideas, that does not contribute to the development of Ukrainian-Hungarian relations and does not comply with the principles of European policy.” Ukraine’s Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba said that Orbán’s neckwear was a “promotion of revisionism ideas, that does not contribute to the development of Ukrainian-Hungarian relations and does not comply with the principles of European policy.” >Orbán posted a video of him meeting the Hungarian football player Balázs Dzudzsák on Instagram where the scarf with the map — that also includes parts of modern Romania, Croatia, Slovakia, Serbia and Austria — is clearly visible. The Romanian foreign ministry also sent its “firm disapproval” of Orbán’s gesture to the Hungarian ambassador in Bucharest on Monday. The Romanian ministry stated that “any revisionist manifestation, regardless of the form it takes, is unacceptable, contrary to the current realities and the commitments undertaken jointly by Romania and Hungary to build a bilateral relationship.” >A spokesperson from the Austrian Ministry of International Affairs told POLITICO: “A quick glance at historical maps in the Viennese Ministry of Foreign Affairs has confirmed initial suspicions, according to which Translithania (the Kingdom of Hungary) ceased to exist around 100 years ago.” “We will inform our Hungarian neighbours of this development at the earliest opportunity,” the ministry added. It's nice to see that the hohol foreign minister has nothing better to do. Also, although I do wish that Orbán will die a violent death soon, but it's still nice to see this amount of asshurt. >>44068 >Omsk Omsk!
>>44077 I almost want to, this silly elitism is nothing but cancer, there are more post bitching about using "wrong" memes than about the topic at hand
>>44083 If you want cuckchan, why not just go to cuckchan, instead of trying to push cuckchan where it isn't wanted? Fucking rapefugees.
>>44084 I don't want cuckchan, i want to be able to post without faggots like you getting offended and crying about it
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>>44084 Because there's being cautious of cancer and then there's being an asshole because you're afraid of anything different on an already-stagnating imageboard. You have several imageboards that you can go to if you're afraid of [different thing]. Maybe try one of the elitist anime ones. Here's your (You) faggot.
>>44085 Nobody is getting offended. It's just you broadcasting how fucking new you are, and then getting upset when everyone knows it.
>>44089 If you weren't offended because your safespace was being violated you wouldn't care, but you clearly do, you just want to virtue signal that you're the real oldfag
Seems Da World Cup has thrown the news loop out of the way massively, been seeing the normalsphere act as in the old days since a couple of days ago ("why is france full of negroes", "why is ecuador full of negroes"), i expect people to know even less about the war than before aside from the US who are currently in the aftermath of the elections/twitter drama. >>44055 It's those chances that you remember missing even years later bro, should've stripped and asked her to come with you to eat some fried mystery fish outside the subway and bathe near the industrial seaport >>44082 >Balázs Dzudzsák He was never pretty but he looks like shit there, still remember him from his Dynamo Moscow days.
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Slow day. Russians attacking Marinka, Indian generals discussing how wars in the future won't need men because drones, missiles, and artillery do all the work, The 40% of Kherson on the West bank is a death trap being abandoned by Ukraine rapidly. Russians seem to be trying to encircle Bakhmut (again) to avoid fighting in urban warfare.
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>>44091 True, i'm kinda regretting it already >>44092 What i'm starting to wonder is why Russia isn't doing this? didn't do that since the beginning Shouldn't those areas be less fortified plus it threatens Ukraine with a massive encirclement, of course it's not an operation that would be done quickly or easily, but it doesn't need to be either, the threat could be enough. Trying to encircle the Donbass should be better than grinding through it https://youtu.be/vX3hEA44MnU makes some good points on the matter Well, maybe those are Surovikin's plans.
>>44052 >>44054 Can archive.ph or such be used to host vids? >>44068 >it's constant stream of videos, pictures and information now that doesn't sound comfy at all, that's why we're all here man
>>44093 From what I remember, Russia dedicated most of their defensive troops to the Kherson and Mariupol offensives. Russian airborne units were still locked up in Kherson until the retreat. That portion was mostly left to the whims of the LNR/DNR since they weren't officially Russian territories yet and Russia was forcing them to fight the war "by themselves" outside of the Izium and Mariupol offensives. By the time they annexed the territories officially, their elite troops' contracts were up so they couldn't force them to run such an offensive. The main way they could traverse that is from Pavlograd to Sumy, but that's topographically a valley/basin with a set of hills on either side making it so you need a manpower push rather than an artillery push. The forests of Ukraine also pose an issue when your army is primarily using unmanned power projection. Pics related.
>>44058 >Poland's MP Duda >western leaders heh >>44069 >Vovan HE CAN'T KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH IT
>>44092 >Indian generals discussing how wars in the future won't need men Are they actually retarded? This thesis was just disproven by this conflict over the past few months... >>44055 >>44091 >>44093 >feels >regrets fuck you fuck you fuck you fuck you fuck you for that
>>44097 That bad timing makes sense >valley/basin with a set of hills on either side >The forests of Ukraine Would that beat advancing through heavily defended cities? It seems as if Russia is punching against Ukraine's toughest defenses, i might be wrong on that though. Well, they might also just be keeping the momentum from the donbass militia campaign that you point out, while a more serious offensive elsewhere is prepared
>>44099 Why are you so mean bro? >Are they actually retarded? The point there is an exaggeration, but it is true that drones are taking over many missions that would've been left for manned planes before. A lot of actors are gonna realize that they can have a decent enough air force at a fraction of the cost, think some third world nations investing in hundreds of drones instead of a dozen jets
HistoryLegends did a video breaking down why Russia has used the strategies they have used. It's a good watch either as a primer or a refresher for why Russia is targeting energy infrastructure as a military target, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYWyStCtaRI >>44100 >Would that beat advancing through heavily defended cities? By a long shot, but forest advances require men because artillery and drones are shit when forests/mountains come into the picture.
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>>44083 As of November 23, 2022, I, as an Executive Broom Officer order (you) to shitpost offensively effective immediately. This order is not limited to the confines of this thread. Move out!
>>44056 >The IAEA's response has basically been "Russia is being irresponsible holding onto the nuclear plant" Well what else could Russia do? They aren't just going to give it back, not while general hostilities are ongoing. They can't reallt blow it up either without incurring various consequences. Their only choice is either hold it like they're doing or decommission it, with or without confiscating the nuclear fuel and shipping it back to Russia.
>>44104 Sir >>44106 Nothing really, except point out the clear hypocrisy, they've been pretty decent at that honestly, pointing out to third parties how international organizations are puppets of the west more than true neutral parties. >>44102 Those men should be arriving soon, also it's winter now, so the forest cover wont be that helpful.
>>44106 It would help if they didn't use it as a military camp and put their lines somewhere outside the plant. Yes, militarily stupid because Ukraine can't exactly full-on shell a nuke plant, nor just storm it, but neither can they ignore Russia holding a sabotagable plant. The Russians are creating a situation where it's likely the plant will sooner or later experience some severe adverse conditions.
>>44082 >borderline fake nation, a world leader in revisionism, calls historically accurate map revisionist
https://youtube.com/watch?v=BttC9UNzU8I Looks like the war is picking up little by little in Donetsk and we'll see full-scale conflict soon. Ukraine seems to be probing along looking for a route to invade Crimea.
>>44104 Oh yeah, I forgot the fucking tengu was BO now.
>>44113 You act like that's somebody else's fault, but you could have stepped up to the plate when BO announced his departure several months in advance and even banned the anon you don't like if you cared enough to do it yourself. Anon gets what he deserves. Stop whining and take your lumps like a man.
>russia still getting btfo lmao
>>44110 Is it a real target now though? Aren't there other Russian military camps they could be targeting? If the plant was in the middle of a battlefield then it would make sense that the Ukrainians would want to shell it, but it really isn't near the action, so why not leave it alone?
>>44104 Kill yourself Barnhill >>44107 Kill yourself Castilian cuckchanner
>>44110 >>44121 That's putting the cart before the horse. Russia wasn't using it as a military camp, and then Ukraine started shelling the power plant instead of their camp which was located several blocks away (plenty far enough for even "dumb" artillery to miss it). Between that and using their blind spots from the power plant to launch aquatic sieges, Russia finally got tired of it and planted their camp adjacent to the power plant to ward off attacks.
Apparently today was very fruitful for the Russians. It was the first day the Ukrainian energy system fully collapsed, Russia started gaining initiative in the Donbass again, and allegedly there's been more missile strikes than at any point in the war (again).
Also apparently Ukraine shut down all of their nuclear power plants because they were at risk of being overloaded from attacks on non-nuclear facilities. It's important to note that once a nuclear power plant goes "dormant" it takes days if not weeks to start it back up.
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Ukraine intelligence focuses suspicions on Orthodox clergy thought to be loyal to Russia KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — An investigation of a centuries-old monastic complex in Ukraine's capital and other religious sites has underscored Ukrainian authorities' suspicions about some Orthodox Christian clergymen they see as loyal to Russia despite Moscow's nine month-old war on the country. The search by security service and police personnel at the Pechersk Lavra monastery, one of the most revered Orthodox sites in Kyiv, was unusual but did not happen in isolation. The Ukrainian counter-intelligence and counter-terrorism service reported Wednesday that its agents searched more than 350 church buildings in all — also including sites at another monastery and a diocese in the Rivne region, 240 kilometers (150 miles) west of Kyiv. And the service, known by its Ukrainian initials SBU, accused the bishop of yet another diocese of pro-Moscow activity last week after searching church premises and finding materials that allegedly justified the Russian invasion. The SBU said the effort is part of its "systematic work to counter the subversive activities of the Russian special services in Ukraine." Orthodox Christians are the largest religious population in Ukraine. But they have been fractured along lines that echo political tensions over Ukraine's defense of its independence and its Western orientation amid Russia's continued claim to political and spiritual hegemony in the region — a concept sometimes called the "Russian world." Many Orthodox leaders have spoken fiercely in favor of Ukrainian independence and denounced the Russian invasion. But the recent searches show that authorities suspect places like Pechersk Lavra — a UNESCO World Heritage Site revered as the cradle of Orthodox monasticism in that region — of being nests of pro-Russian sentiment and activity. Ukrainian authorities investigated some clergy earlier in the war but have largely shown deference until now, said Archimandrite Cyril Hovorun, a professor of ecclesiology, international relations and ecumenism at Sankt Ignatios College, University College Stockholm. That deference has now subsided with many Ukrainians feeling that church officials should "be as equal in front of the law as all of us," said Hovorun, an Orthodox priest and native of Ukraine. "Some key metropolitans of the Ukrainian church were quite famous and notorious for supporting publicly the 'Russian world' ideology," he said. "It's not a secret." The SBU said Wednesday that in this week's operations, more than 50 people underwent in-depth "counterintelligence interviews, including using a polygraph." It said they included some Russians and other foreigners, including some without valid passports. It also said it detected "pro-Russian literature, which is used during studies in seminaries and parish schools, including for propaganda of the 'Russian world'." In Russia, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov accused Ukrainian authorities of "waging a war on the Russian Orthodox Church." But the Rev. Mykolay Danylevich, who has often served as a spokesman for the Ukrainian Orthodox Church disputed Peskov's characterization on the Telegram social media site, asserting that the UOC is not Russian. The UOC declared its independence from Moscow in May. "The UOC is the same 'Russian Church' as Kherson is a 'subject' of the Russian Federation," he wrote, referring to the city liberated by Ukrainian troops after Russia illegally annexed it. The SBU operation follows a Nov. 12 service at the Pechersk Lavra complex where a Ukrainian Orthodox priest was filmed talking about the "awakening" of Russia. Songs praising the "Russian world" were sung, it said. "Those who, in the conditions of a full-scale war unleashed by Russia against Ukraine, are waiting for the 'awakening of Mother Rus' should understand that this harms the security and interests of Ukraine and our citizens. And we will not allow such manifestations," said the SBU's leader, Vasyl Maliuk. Separately, the SBU said last week that it had exposed "subversive activities" by Metropolitan Jonathan of the diocese of Tulchin and Bratslav in western Ukraine. The service alleged that he stored printed materials justifying Russia's invasion in his church and planned to distribute them. It said the material called for "seizure of state power and changing of the borders of our country." Metropolitan Jonathan denied the allegations, saying they "do not represent the truth." The SBU said on its Facebook page it is following legal procedures. It said it "adheres to the principle of impartiality to the activities of any religious creed and respects the right of every citizen to freedom of secularism and religion." The "Russian world" term serves as a flashpoint in a culture war underlying the shooting war. It portrays Moscow as the protector and cultivator of a shared, millennium-old Orthodox Christian culture across Russia, Ukraine and Belarus. Moscow Patriarch Kirill, head of the Russian Orthodox Church, has justified the war as part of a "metaphysical struggle," with Russia acting to protect Ukraine from the liberal encroachment of the West, manifested in such things as gay pride parades. Orthodoxy in Ukraine is divided. The historic branch of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church has officially been loyal to the Russian Orthodox Church since the 17th century. But after breakaway groups organized under the name Orthodox Church of Ukraine, they received recognition in 2019 as an independent church by the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople. The Russian church fiercely rejects that move as illegitimate. And three months after the war began, the part of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church that had remained loyal to Moscow then declared its own independence. But that church's relationship to Moscow remains ambiguous. "Its status is now unclear," added John Burgess, author of "Holy Rus': The Rebirth of Orthodoxy in the New Russia" and professor at Pittsburgh Theological Seminary. "There's some division within that church," with priests and other leaders "that are very vocally pro-Moscow," he said. But in other dioceses, priests are no longer mentioning Kirill by name in public prayers — a ritually potent snub in the Orthodox tradition, where such prayers are routine as an expression of church unity. Ukrainians' search of Pechersk Lavra is sensitive. Dating to the 11th century, it includes a labyrinth of caves, tombs of saints and Baroque churches, according to UNESCO. "From an American pluralism point of view, you'd say, 'Really? You'd raid a church because somebody sang a song?'" Burgess said. "But it's wartime. There's so much anger toward Russia and so much anger with anything that seems to be associated with Russia. We'll see if the security forces really came up with anything." https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/national/russia-ukraine-conflict/ukraine-intelligence-focuses-suspicions-on-orthodox-clergy-thought-to-be-loyal-to-russia https://archive.ph/Mi8lP td;lr SBU is purging the Ukrainian Orthodox church due to Russian Allegations
>>44130 There it is, the satanic influence of the west.
>>44122 And a jew is heading that effort
>>44130 Doesn't have much to do with religion, Russian Orthodoxy got undermined by KGB plants, and Kyrill's ridiculous assertions have just made it very clear that this isn't a problem of yesteryear, these plants are still active.
>>44130 >"counterintelligence interviews, including using a polygraph." I really hate misconceptions about polygraph testing. All it does is measure if you tense up from a question. That doesn't mean you're lying. That aside I hope the faithful can make it through this conflict without falling for state propaganda. The Orthodox church has its origins in anarchy and shouldn't fall under state-sanctioned practices.
European Parliament has officially declared Russia as a state who sponsors terrurism due to the country finally being able to cripple the Ukrainian power grid in its entirety even if for a brevity.
test
>>44135 >I hope the faithful can make it through this conflict without falling for state propaganda. They made it through many wars and revolutions, this too shall pass.
>>44136 >download a game from russian torrent once >get executed for dealing with terrorists Such is life in the free world. >>44128 >>44129 You know this is pretty big. Lets see how long states authority can survive without modern communications. Also how long a country can survive on gibs alone.
>>44136 >declare a nuclear power and permanent member of the US as a terrorist state Only good things can come from this.
>>44136 It's so odd, if the west was confident that they're winning they'd want a state they could negotiate with right? unless they plan to completely dismantle the current Russian state which is likely but a huge escalation What do they get from this? Russia is already as isolated as it's going to get
>>44136 >"I propose designating the European Parliament as a sponsor of idiocy," Russian foreign ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova wrote on Telegram. It's one thing to declare some durka durkas who get meager supplies from you at best a terrorist state. You don't fucking declare your neighbors terrorist states. When goods can't cross borders, boots do. I heard talk that Russia might shut off the remaining gas flows going through Ukraine once and for all after they accused Ukraine of siphoning gas paid for by Moldova. Now that the European Parliament has declared Russia persona-non-grata it just gives Russia an excuse to actually target civilian infrastructure instead of just dual-use infrastructure which would put an end to Ukrainian spotting teams on civilian buildings (one of the main things that were holding up Russians in the urban areas). I didn't understand why Dima was talking about the possibility of another attack on Kiev but now I can see why after reading this bullshit. >>44138 Yes, but those were back when being Christian was a population trait held by the majority of the public unlike now when religion is constantly under attack. >>44142 They'll still have communications visa portable gas generators, but it does cripple their German WWI train-style offensives and puts a damper on things like artillery positioning. I'm expecting a lot more attacks on civilian areas when Ukraine can't get good comm lines to their artillerymen who just have orders to keep firing. Ukraine's main advantage with artillery (limited as it may be) was that they could play cat-and-mouse to use it as suppressive fire. Without easy access to electricity I'm not sure if they can keep up. I'm sure Ukraine will prioritize military infrastructure over civilian infrastructure and then demand more gibs though. >>44150 >What do they get from this? There could be some 4D chess going on but honestly I think ideology has just taken over. When ideologues are backed into a corner because of ideology, they usually double down and become cult-like in their decision-making weeding out any voices of reason until there's an echo chamber of "Russia Bad, Europe Winning because good guys" without any basis in reality. Obviously voices of reason still exist, but they're so heavily outnumbered that they might as well be drowned out until said voices decide to split causing mass unrest (since typically the voices of reason are the only people preventing a death spiral). It's kind of like how the US has doubled down on bullying sovereign nations and their response when finally told to fuck off was to start throwing American dollars out to literally anyone and anything outside of America because it stabilizes the value of the dollar (short-term) by getting other countries to trade in dollars instead of joining BRICS+. Long-term it causes rapid hyperinflation when eventually the jig is up but it usually allows for tax havens for the rats to flee the sinking ship and keeps things looking good when they're actually falling apart. Kinda like drinking more alcohol to prevent having a hangover.
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>>44136 Prigozhin has sent the sledgehammer to the European Parliament
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>>44154 That's peak esoteric shitposting. Half the media outlets don't even realize it's a reference to that one traitor that got hammer time'd for stabbing Wagner in the back.
EU agrees on price caps. Hungary got an exemption from the Russian oil price cap
A U.S.-Made Missile Went Astray in Ukraine, Injuring Civilians https://archive.ph/zWNSa >An air-launched AGM-88B missile, built to destroy enemy radars, apparently missed its target and hit an apartment building in Kramatorsk in September. At least it didn't land in Poland.
>>44153 >I didn't understand why Dima was talking about the possibility of another attack on Kiev but now I can see why after reading this bullshit. Ukrainians have lately build a lot of defenses around Kiev. Not sure they'll gonna go trough all that, but Kiev is kinda close to Byelorussian border, so there's that. Overall, I don't understand what they hope to accomplish by designating Russia as terrorists state, other than giving their own civilian populace a justification for war and some sort of false moral high ground , but I severely doubt NATO is actually gonna go ahead and declare a war on Russia,'terrorists' state or not. Also, lmao at oil price cap, Russia has repeatedly stated they're not gonna sell oil to country that impose oil cap, and India has said USA to fuck off and they they're still gonna buy Russian crude at regular prices. I imagine China will do the same.
>>44157 >Hungary got an exemption from the Russian oil price cap Doesn't matter because Orbán already put a price cap on fuel to help him win the elections, and he did it at the end of last year, well before the war. So selling oil became a net loss. The only thing that managed to achieve is that no foreign company imports oil here, so MOL (the biggest oil company of Hungary) sells it. By now there are some many restrictions and exceptions about who can oil and for what price that there are gas stations where you can only buy 1-2 litres at a time. And everyone but private individuals have to pay the full price, and that also helps to fuel inflation. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if in a few months I was forced to work from home permanently, simply because there is no fuel left even for buses.
>>44135 Or, a primitive oracular practice. > The Orthodox church has its origins in anarchy and shouldn't fall under state-sanctioned practices. Duuuuuuuuude. In practice, they were a department of smile-and-nod nobodies from Peter I on. For more recent versions, add "KGB priest" and "bless this Mercedes" jokes to taste (or all the way to lack thereof, why not). But then, the locals would be under the local KGB, and thus inherited by SBU. The point of this storm in a teacup seems to be simple: displacing a native fake (which at least is traditional and often tasteful) with an imported "fake & gay" equivalent, as prescribed by the suzerain. The rest is smoke and mirrors. ...But it would be absolutely hilarious if this led to Orthodox resurgence under pressure. >>44159 > and India has said USA to fuck off and they they're still gonna buy Russian crude at regular prices. Not only buy, re-sell it. https://web.archive.org/web/20220608135222/www.informationliberation.com/?id=63128 >>44161 >By now there are some many restrictions and exceptions about who can oil and for what price that there are gas stations where you can only buy 1-2 litres at a time. Huh, where did we hear that before? And the first rule of Facepalm Club is... 🤦
>>44162 >Huh, where did we hear that before? They also put price caps on a bunch of foodstuff and on the interest on a few kinds of loans, and on how much utility companies can charge for their services (although that one has been in place for a decade). This corrupt system worked since 2010 because the world economy was going strong, but it seems like Orbán's system will finally collapse under the weight of the first crisis it has to face.
>>44161 >forced to work from home God, I wish that will come around. I hate this city so much, I wish I was back at home. >>44163 >Orbán's system will finally collapse As much as I dislike it, I shudder to think what will succeed him. Take a good look at our mainstream politics and say that something better will follow it.
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>>44164 >As much as I dislike it, I shudder to think what will succeed him. Take a good look at our mainstream politics and say that something better will follow it. The power vacuum would lead to vicious infighting, and that would paralyse the state for at least one or two election cycles. There is a good chance that most of the talking heads would be forced out of politics, simply because they'd face way too much opposition from way too many sides. Imagine the kind of political discourse was going on between 1990 and 2010, but on steroids. But this is not germane to the topic of the thread, so any news from the front?
Won't the EU just end up buying Russian oil from neutral nations anyhow? Somebody better start reading Hazlitt...
>>44170 Yes they have been doing just that ever since the sanctions were put on... and it is the only reason our (as in, german, poles are just slaves) economy still functions.
deez nuts
>>44154 >dat etching The bloody handle is another nice touch.
lmao get dabbed on
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>Severely wounded in battle, the commander of the PMC group with the call sign Cherdash, in order not to be captured, remaining loyal to the Motherland, directs a bullet into his heart.
>serb >slurping vatnik semen checks out
>germ >bringing nothing constructive to threads ever yup
>serb >acting like tough shit after he lost his slapfest 25+ years ago mmhmm
You all are retards.
>>44176 >>44175 If anon was injured and saw an enemy drone coming, would he dab for it? Will meme war 3 (meme war 4?) extend into meatspace?
Apparently it wasn't actually "the biggest missile attack yet" by Russia the other day. However with cumulative damage it was something of a "killing blow" on the civilian half of Ukraine's system. Something like 70% of Kiev and Lviv are without power now. Ukraine is scrounging up Soviet electronics at markup around the world to repair their power grid which is equally fucking over third world countries that rely on Soviet power systems when their governments sell off energy infrastructure to Ukraine.
>>44176 Bit odd for a mercenary to do that >>44182 They'll repair it for a few days and Russia will destroy it again. Realistically what can Ukraine do? >>44179 >mexico
>>44183 >Bit odd for a mercenary to do that Not if you've seen how Ukrainians torture prisoners. >What can Ukraine do? Realistically? Not much. For starters they could focus on "hardening" power plants by building structures around them to help with deflecting missile damage, but that's the kind of solution that takes a lot of money (which Ukraine doesn't have) and time (which Ukraine only kind of has). Another thing they could do is scrap their Soviet power setup for a modernized Western one for cheaper more abundant parts, but that would require tradesmen which Ukraine is lacking because they were all conscripted.
>>44184 >scrap their Soviet power setup for a modernized Western one How much fucking time would it take to replace a whole energy grid?
>>44185 The whole energy grid? Years. Key infrastructure along military lines (the way they are repairing the stuff now)? A month or two with enough men on the job. You don't have to change the power generation method since electricity is electricity and will travel across existing (presumably) copper media. You just gotta change the filtration method, step-down transformers, and substations. It's still expensive but it's a hella lot more doable to then beg the West to commission western step-down transformers and the like than it is to scrounge third world countries for half-rate 50 year old equipment. Modding the trains could be done in a matter of weeks. Modding civilian infrastructure significantly less so.
>>44183 >Bit odd for a mercenary to do that True or not, I don't care honestly. I found video a day ago with the same description I posted, but didn't want to post it as I found it overly embellished. I just wanted to juxtapose it next to 'Le epic dabb Xd'. Both are shitty, neither belongs in the thread. >mexico Ironic that Mexico is talking about losing, innit >>44184 I have crackpot theory that Russians are bombing power infrastructure in order to force civvies to vacate Kiev and other major cities so they can have another go at them. Honestly I don't think Russians are gonna attempt that again, but Ukrainians have been telling their civilians in the capital to go to rural areas where there are wood stoves and shit, and they're building new lines of defense around Kiev, so I don't know. Might be something to it probably not
>>44187 the defense lines and trenches are built in the area because of the drone strikes happening. On ukie telgram channels they have admitted striking the area almost everyday, I'd doubt ukies will stop even if Russia would ever accept the demands Zelensky is making
>>44175 >>44176 Isn't bombing a clearly injured soldier kinda war-crimey? Though mercenaries, secret police and partisans deserve anything that comes their way.
>>44184 warriors have long committed seppuku to avoid torture/humiliation in enemy hands. it's understandable. also, the Wagners are not your average mercenaries, from what I've heard. >>44187 I think the Russian strategy is to keep Ukraine's electric grid teetering on the brink of collapse, without pushing it all the way over. >>44189 it kind of is, but unlike regular forces, mercs are not protected by the Geneva Convention.
>>44142 >Lets see how long states authority can survive without modern communications. >>44153 >Without easy access to electricity I'm not sure if they can keep up. Are you talking about CC type facilities going dark? If those weren't designed to run off backup generators that's just retarded. I thought the goal of crippling their grid is to shut down electric rail and fuck the logistics further. I'm also assuming hohols didn't have any ative fixed-radar installations from the CCCP era to begin with, but even those ought to have some backup capacity. as long as you have diesel that is
>>44164 >As much as I dislike it, I shudder to think what will succeed him. Take a good look at our mainstream politics and say that something better will follow it. That's... any slav nations in a nutshell? >>44184 >not enough time to "harden" infrastructure but enough time to overhaul it completely Even if that made any sense, the "western" infrastructure substitutes are equally vulnerable to rockets. >>44186 >designing an electrical power grid - how hard can it be? Working with high voltage requires years of education and experience, cost of mistakes is extremely high. Line workers make good dough as it is, can't imagine you could pay them enough to work in an active war zone. just stick to tinkering with AA batteries and arduino boards
>>44176 >awkwardly trying to seppuku with a long barrel Do they not carry sidearms? >>44192 >mercs are not protected by the Geneva Convention I doubt they can tell the difference from up there, unless they had intel ahead of time.
Strelok has been killed in action, we are now imposters. https://archive.ph/tRH0O
>>44196 >LARPing in military gear with Ukrainian flags, in an oblast that borders Ukraine*, in a country at war with Ukraine Even if the LARP reports are true, and ignoring the fact that a Stalker LARPer can also decide to engage in non-LARP militancy, that's pretty fucking stupid. *For certain definitions of Ukraine
>>44196 Top effing kek. Play stupid games...
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>>44196 >Article shows one of the flags they had >Larping as a Stalker faction >Not even good factions but Freedom at that
>>44196 >>44197 >>44198 Such is life in the Zone...
>>44199 Svoboda is an actual political party in Ukraine, even if they don't use that actual flag. They might, I don't know and I don't care enough to do any actual research. The party is aligned with the anti-Russians, which makes this even stupider.
>>44195 I don't thinks side arms are standard issue for grunts in Russian armed forces. I think you can purchase one and be allowed to carry it along side, but you're not issued one. However don't quote me on that, I could be wrong. Don't know the rules for PMC's such as Wagner. They're probably issued standard arms, but they can kit their gear and purchase new funs independently. >>44196 >>44199 >Freedom They had it coming.
>>44136 >European Parliament Who cares about the opinion of some gaybar?
>>44203 >second vid >those random cars in the convoy Either civilians in that area don't care much about military vehicles any more, or some elements of that unit have significantly lighter vehicles than the average.
>>44205 >Either civilians in that area don't care much about military vehicles any more, or some elements of that unit have significantly lighter vehicles than the average. Both can be the case. You'd be surprised how much military and civilian life in slavland entangle once apathy sets in.
>>44203 Why is the winter camo painted only on one side? or am i confused?
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>>44205 >Either civilians in that area don't care much about military vehicles any more That's just the regular Russian things.
recently I was searching something unrelated, and stumbled into a cringe forum (not reddit or twitter, an older style message board) with a thread on Russia/Ukraine. I won't link it here, but holy fuck, some ppl out there are truly brain-cucked. It was surreal to see their unshakeable belief in even the most extravagant Ukrainian propaganda (ie Ukraine are the Spartans, Russians are cartoon villains who fare worse than Wile E Coyote using Acme products, retaking Crimea, etc). It reminded me of how glorious it will be to watch the eventual Russian victory, presumably next year. The salt may even surpass the 2016 election. >>44204 it's entirely possible that they did it for the updoots.
>>44209 >It reminded me of how glorious it will be to watch the eventual Russian victory, presumably next year. Hoping for the same, but i'm lowering my expectations, Even if Russia wins it'll likely be a negotiated peace after they've put enough pressure on Ukraine, after they've ground up enough Ukrainian forces, instead of a big victory. I hope i'm wrong.
>>44209 >It reminded me of how glorious it will be to watch the eventual Russian victory LMAO
>>44207 >Why is the winter camo painted only on one side? or am i confused? I think it's just the pattern. Camo is not only used to match the color and saturation of the surroundings, but also to 'break up' the shape of camouflaged object. It doesn't help when you're directly lookin at it with HD cameras, but from high up and/or far away, it significantly helps conceal it in the terrain.
>>44203 >>44205 >>44210 the second video was made in 2018 somewhere in Tomsk Oblast , I know because because have the same video
>>44214 Well, shit then. I hate when they put misleading videos on Telegram. Thanks for pointing it out.
and speaking of Rasputitsa, I 'd imagine some of the trenches are covered by melted snow/ice water especially in the Svatove area. I have seen videos of it covered in snow already.
the Ukie residents are complaining about the about the what the" 4,000 Points of Invincibility", some of this generator centers aren't actually working.
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>>44216 There was snow few days ago, but it seems to have melted due to above zero temperatures and rain. Pictures taken from UAF side.
>>44210 >it'll likely be a negotiated peace I don't think any negotiation will take place until Zman and much of the upper Ukrainian government is out.
>>44189 A little but to be honest I'd rather get bombed if I'm gonna die either way. >>44192 >I think the Russian strategy is to keep Ukraine's electric grid teetering on the brink of collapse, without pushing it all the way over. Precisely. It lets them leverage it as a card against Ukraine at the appropriate time. People fear getting in a bad car wreck a lot more if they haven't been in one. Similarly if Ukraine goes without power it will be the "new norm" but if they keep them on the brink, then Ukraine will keep wasting resources on fixing it. >>44193 >Are you talking about CC type facilities going dark? I was primarily referring to rail logistics, which are considered a part of communications. Ukraine has had a gas shortage for generators since about May/June. They have enough to run them for critical operations, but not at full capacity across the entire front should the electrical grid go down. Cracks appearing is where Russia makes most of their gains. Notice every time the electrical grid goes down enough to fuck with rail, Russia starts winning (from Ukraine being unable to send meatbags to the front lines). >>44194 >Even if that made any sense, How does that not make sense? The type of infrastructure hardening I'm describing involves constructing entire tunnel systems and large concrete buildings; things much more susceptible to damage from explosions if Russia sees them being build up. >the "western" infrastructure substitutes are equally vulnerable to rockets. Yes but they can obtain parts to replace broken ones more readily and more cheaply than trying to get their hands on 50 year old Soviet shit from third world countries. I even rehashed that narrative in my other post you responded to. Speaking of which... >Working with high voltage requires years of education and experience LOL no, no it doesn't. That's entirely a protectionist racket because of Boomers who wanted to keep electrical work from being a bottom-feeder job, much like most trades. There's a reason the US military can churn out electricians in about 4-8 weeks of actual electrical training from zero knowledge on the subject. You mostly just need people who understand the dangers of high voltage who can wire up a motor or transformer; skills that can be learned in a couple days. One skilled journeyman or foreman can easily have 20 "apprentices" underneath him doing 99% of the work if necessary with delegation of duties. >Cost of mistakes is extremely high Yes, I don't disagree with you on this point, but in an active war zone you can train conscripts to be part of the military engineering branch in a couple weeks to do it as slave labor and then the 1 in 5 death rate (on the extreme end) doesn't matter. Like you said, it's an active war zone. >Spoiler I've wired high voltage power substations and worked on live systems. Shit isn't dangerous with a laymen's understanding of how electricity works and a healthy fear of death. DIY house electrical scares me a lot more than anything industrial.
>>44195 Generally Wagner PMC issues a small set of barebones basic standard gear and then expects their mercs to buy the rest of their gear as they see fit. It's lead to a lot more looting and funny scenarios but it's also prevented the PMC from getting bogged down in logistics since they can purchase the essentials like food and water privately and then let the mercs figure out the rest. >>44205 The latter wouldn't surprise me, but even where I'm at in America it's not unusual to drive past IFV columns on the highway so I can't imagine places at war would be particularly terrified. >>44208 There's a "gas gas gas" edit of the first one that I was looking for but I don't want to spend 30 minutes locating it.
>>44209 >2023 victory The way Ukraine is doubling down they probably won't acquiesce until early 2024, friend. And that'll be because of a bread revolution from their second winter without gas and third season without growing crops. >>44210 Or this. >>44221 The entire reason they haven't signed agreements is because of fears of partitioning Ukraine from Ukrainian oligarchs that got them into power. If those territories (namely North-Eastern Ukraine and Dnipro) begin to get threatened, there is a high possibility that Ukraine will cuck out. >>44220 I tell you what, snow-mud is 100x worse than any hard frost when it eats into your clothes/skin. Fuck that, man. I feel a little bad for those guys.
Found this channel, gonna keep an eye on it for a bit to see if it's any good since they do short videos: https://www.youtube.com/@WeebUnion/videos
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>>44209 >it's entirely possible that they did it for the updoots. https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/RC-9-2022-0482-AM-001-003_EN.pdf It's pretty obvious what they are trying to do. Question the propaganda or refuse to side with Ukraine or any side = illegally supporting terrorism. And then there is the part closing the door on Nord Stream 1&2 for good because blowing it up wasn't enough.
>>44228 It's even simpler than that. They got away with using the brown/gay/tranny "acceptance" movement to silence any dissenting voice for years, and thought they could use the same method to silence any dissent on public policy towards helping Ukraine. It's cult psychosis 101; if you don't support Ukraine you "must" be part of "the other."
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>>44230 Ukrainian memes making fun of Crimean power outages back in 2015, for some extra pottery.
>>44230 There's more light in the Black Sea than there is in Ukraine.
>>44230 I swear I can see both my own city and the outline of lake Balaton on the second pic.
>>44231 I feel like there's "How many Ukrainians does it take to change a light bulb" joke to be made here.
Larp Wars continues.... in other news rumors.. crazy Chink betting syndicates dumped into hitstarter so the Monero on GS is more than all Eastern Europe combined. /obviouslypurefictionnosuchdarkwebsiteexists
>>44220 Neat, color photos from WWI.
>>44230 Huh. No lightning for hohols, it seems
>The Armed Forces of Ukraine in Bakhmut were given an ultimatum demanding to lay down their arms and surrender! They gave time until November 27 until 6:00 That's a bit odd. Bakhmut is neither in encirclement nor is it even close to being in one. Are Russians planing something big soon or is this just the usual 'see what sticks'?
Are vehicle-launched ATGMs even a thing in this conflict? I don't think I've seen any footage of them being launched by an IFV.
>>44240 Russia is clearly getting desperate, serb
>>44240 There's been increasing reports that they're scouting out the surrounding areas for encirclement. In other cases when this has happened in this war, the Russians were either moving a large armored force into the region or were giving forewarning to claim they gave a heads up before destroying urban infrastructure. They might just be getting ready to shell/bomb high rise buildings. Weather forecast says that the skies over Bakhmut will clear up but it will be freezing temperatures in about 32 hours. Or it could be Russian cope, but usually when the Russians give an ultimatum it means they're getting ready to attempt to use overwhelming force.
>>44243 I think they were used in the early war, but most of the time Ukraine doesn't have armor and when they do, that armor is usually dealing with artillery barrages.
>>44187 We are 3 taco munchers here, why scrap all of us in one go?
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>>44183 Please, give gold back.
>>44249 There was relative quiet on the front last few days, both sides have been regrouping. I feel like initiative can shift now if one one side makes a move before the other. Either Russia attacks and Ukrainians have to shift forces from Zaporozhie to Bakhmut and call off their attack towards Melitopol, or Russia might go relatively uncontested and take back initiative. But it's a bit wierd to make a major move like that just before a proper winter kicks in. We still don't know just how many forces RuAF has at their disposal. They might not have enough manpower to go into operational depth. >Or it could be Russian cope, Always a possibility. Their performance has been less than satisfactory to say the least. I guess that's what you get when you prepare for short war and end up having to slog trough it on the long run. >but usually when the Russians give an ultimatum it means they're getting ready to attempt to use overwhelming force. They're gonna delete Bakhmut, aren't they? >>44251 That was a little bit impulsive by me, I should have attacked the post, not the flag. Some of you taco's are aaaalright bit spicy though
Where did /fascist/ go?
>>44256 Not to this thread about Russia's special needs military operation, that's for sure.
>>44257 who gives a shit about pointless meme war you guys use as a alternative to Game of Thrones, where did /fascist/ go?
>>44196 amogus
>>44258 /fascist/ went to zzzchan. Be forewarned, the board's a shithole, fully taken over by the ethnoglobe spergs.
>>44258 /fascist/ currently resides on zzzchan. I must inform you that /fascist/ isn't what it used to be on 8chan. I don't know how long you've been withdrawn from the board but they are definitely a different place. Here is the link. Sorry I don't think crosslinking works on the webring with different sites. If I'm wrong I know someone will correct me. https://zzzchan.xyz/fascist/index.html
>>44260 >>44261 Thanks lads, anything is better than modern day 4cucks.
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>>44262 Both have their shitty sides and even positive aspects about them but I agree that /fascist/ is better than 4/pol/ but that's not saying much. Enjoy yourself.
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>>44196 The Russians are persecuting gamers now? Big mistake. Mark my words well, Putin: your days are fucking numbered.
>>44264 We're gonna see the reddit brigade 2.0 soon
>>44222 >they can obtain parts to replace broken ones more readily and more cheaply than trying to get their hands on 50 year old Soviet shit from third world countries Buying up old soviet shit is not sustainable I agree but cheaply/readily is debatable in the near term supply chains are fucked on all fronts as it is and (at least in US) a lot of grid modernization/upgrades have gone to the backburner in the past year. I presume same applies to European equipment. >US military can churn out electricians in about 4-8 weeks of actual electrical training from zero knowledge on the subject >You mostly just need people who understand the dangers of high voltage who can wire up a motor or transformer You have a lot more faith in people than I do. It works as long as those trainees have step-by-step instructions and right equipment supplied (i.e. they're bots). I doubt they will do well trying to troubleshooting or retrofitting new/old equipment together. >the 1 in 5 death rate (on the extreme end) doesn't matter I meant they're likely to cause more damage and problems than they end up solving.
>>44202 >>44223 Makes sense, just wondering because the title said he was a commander (officer?) who typically have a sidearm. >>44223 >even where I'm at in America it's not unusual to drive past IFV columns on the highway You don't see tracked vehicles raw dogging it though, they're always on a trailer. >>44235 >How many Ukrainians does it take to change a light bulb Let's ask our Swedish expert >>44222
>>44258 >Pointless meme war It's more like at least one or two of you fags wander in asking that every month and always wander into this thread.
>>44267 >You don't see tracked vehicles raw dogging it though, they're always on a trailer. Not the ones I've seen. Destroying our highways while expecting the city to pay for it are their specialty.
>>44210 keep in mind that we've only recently entered phase II of the conflict. Despite fighting a proxy war with NATO/ZOG, Russia's been achieving its objectives so far (occupy Donbass and land bridge to Crimea, fuck the electrical grid) so I remain optimistic. as for that forum thread, I just had to get that off my mind, because it was a weird rabbit-hole to go down, with anyone who was even neutral on Russia called a "genocide supporter". as I said, I look forward to mass cognitive dissonance in the future. >>44224 >The way Ukraine is doubling down they probably won't acquiesce until early 2024, friend. And that'll be because of a bread revolution from their second winter without gas and third season without growing crops. You may be right, especially if Russia drives all the way to the Carpathians. It remains to be seen. >>44229 This is true, and also why I think negotiated surrender of Ukraine is unlikely. They believe their own propaganda, so they'll force Ukraine to fight to the death for the sake of their fag crusade against Russia.
So... What the hell's going on with Belarus? Is Poutine slowly attempting to perform an Belanschluss, political infighting going a bit too deep or Natto interference in a foreign nation? >>44258 They also have a bunker on 8chan, but it's empty at the moment. >>44263 Frankly, all political boards kind of suck because no matter how right they are on one particular topic, they'll completely ignore the alternative unless they can point out how terrible it is in comparison. At the moment I've found this iteration of /k/ to have the most sensible takes on geopolitics. /monarchy/ is pretty fun though.
>>44264 Is that the famous Melvin Melvin Brother of the Joker? >>44270 >Despite fighting a proxy war with NATO/ZOG, Russia's been achieving its objectives so far (occupy Donbass and land bridge to Crimea, fuck the electrical grid) so I remain optimistic. The goal was to demilitarize Ukraine, and they've achieved that and then some (breaking NATO's toys in the process). However, Russia did hemorrhage a LOT of their younger generation both to conduct the war and as draft dodgers leaving for neighboring NATO aligned countries and the college educated who left for Weimerica, plus unless the EU collapses (like real loss of political power collapse, not at the local level like with Greece), most of the technologically advanced world will ostracize them for a couple of generations. I expect Russia to stay dominant on international for a couple of decades, and then be on the receiving end of a collapse of their own (if they don't get gayop'd by America before that, like it's happening in Iran).
>>44271 >What the hell's going on with Belarus? The foreign minister of ten years suddenly dying without any listed cause of death, Belarus taking over many of the CSTO's paper-pushing duties, or the stupid Olympic athlete shit? >>44272 >I expect Russia to stay dominant on international for a couple of decades, and then be on the receiving end of a collapse of their own I think it depends on how genuine the Russians are about this whole sovereignty thing they've been pushing. If it's just talking points for India/China I could see it collapsing soon after Putin's death in the next decade or two, but if Russia is serious about approaching BRICS++ from the "we don't fuck around in each others' countries and in return you don't fuck with ours" shindig, then the living space they've captured in Ukraine could sustain their population for at least a century.
>>44273 I'm only interested in the first two, Olympic athletes are kind of a meme group >>44273 >I think it depends on how genuine the Russians are about this whole sovereignty thing they've been pushing. I doubt they'll keep this angle for much longer. Originally the idea of recognizing the breakaway republics as independent states might have backfired A LOT with China and Serbia and even within Russia in some areas, which is why Poutine's staff ratified the statements as "lol jk there's ethnic russians there therefore it's part of russia". I have no doubt in my mind that when China's projects fail - and we're starting to see that with videos of protests finally coming over from their social media - they'll start eyeing Siberian lebensbaum.
>>44270 >keep in mind that we've only recently entered phase II of the conflict... I really have my doubts everything has been going according to plan for Russia, there's too much pointing to the opposite, i don't think Russia is losing or failing miserably at all, but neither can you just trust the plan >>44272 >The goal was to demilitarize Ukraine Considering everything NATO has given it i don't think that has been successful either >Russia did hemorrhage a LOT of their younger generation both to conduct the war That's the sort of crisis that might re-invigorate Russia, but yeah, they'0ll definitely collapse in the coming generations
>>44277 >they'0ll definitely collapse in the coming generations I don't think so.
>>44278 Their demographics are just as fucked as the west's without all the advantages the west has same goes for China
>>44277 >>44279 Considering how ethnic minorities seem to be bearing the blunt of causalities, one might argue that this war might have a small eugenic effect on the overall Russian population. Although that still won't solve the underlying problems of urbanization and poor economic conditions eroding both the willingness and the opportunities to make families.
https://youtu.be/Z5kxFQjyRYc Continuation from why the don bass shouldn't be attacked directly which goes hand in hand with what >>44227 https://youtu.be/2kxTu01MSZo proposes will happen. This has to be obvious to Ukraine too, so should Russia go for it?
>>44196 Assuming it's not pulled out of… thin air? The most likely answer without further information is "some idiot wanted a medal". If so, he is very unlikely to like the result. Not that this kind of shit could nevar evar work, but right now his bosses probably have enough of headache even without harebrained local initiative getting underfoot. >>44210 The problem might be simply that Mr. Z is not considered agreement-capable. Then the Kremlins wait to talk with someone else, who did not double down on this several times. The first window of opportunity for a coup passed, but when everyone including his supporters tires of this shit, the issue can be re-opened. Then there are effects outside the proxy war. NATO bleeds resources for very little effect. While Euro Trots set themselves up for mass unrest at very least. So, if they remain belligerent and rock their own boat enough? Soviet intelligence services had only slightly less experience with this crap than State Department. And had more of healthy cynicism even back then. Consider. https://www.isegoria.net/2011/02/preserve-their-illusions/
>>44274 I don't know about the second but my personal pet theory is that Putin is serious about this decentralization thing and is trying to pass off traditional Russian roles onto other nations inside the CSTO to make sure whoever comes in later can't make a power grab that fucks up the last 30 years of progress trying to make Russian Empire 2.0 I mean he's largely delegated the military matters to the military but military objectives to the civilian government. As per the foreign minister? No clue. He was an old man but the fact they won't disclose how he died is suspicious.
>>44295 >Claimed Ukrainian offensive >The entire river And people are supposed to take this seriously?
>>44296 I wanted to show a map of the fortifications and trenches built on the Kherson region. Too many pro-ukies retards are claiming the ukies could cross the river no problem.
>>44297 >Too many pro-ukies retards are claiming the ukies could cross the river no problem. They probably could but they wouldn't get very far.
>>44274 >they'll start eyeing Siberian lebensbaum. Thats baseless wishfull thinking on the same level as Puting getting assassinated. Whats more probable is europe going colonial again. Europe NEEDS resources and has no other means of getting them anymore.
Sporadic information coming trough from Bakhmut. Nothing concrete yet, but there are reports that Wagner/Russian Forces caputed two or three outlying villages around Bakhmut. Settlements in questions are Ozaryonovka Avdeevka and Zelenopolye. Awaiting for confirmation.
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Yup, Rybar confirms it.
>>44303 Watching the advance on Bakhmut has been like watching water you want to boil
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>>44302 >>44303 Cool, but am I correct to assume that the Russians are just constantly pushing everywhere in the area, and this is pretty much just where the Ukrainians had to give them some ground? Looking at that map (although I can't tell the topography based on this), capturing Pidhorodne would be a better first step because they could reach the river, and it should be easier to defend that against an attack from the east, and it would be also a good position to probe the the city from a new direction. Also, jewgle streetview is quite lacking in the area, but I found this.
>>44304 True, but this has been most action around it for months. >>44305 They have leaned heavily on that area, but haven't made a concentrated push, as they both lacked men and Ukrainians have dug in heavily and are offering stiff resistance. The main thing I found interesting is that Russians offered Ukrainians to lay down their arms in that specific area where there's an advance, so this might be a beginning of something bigger. Or it could be just the case of limited attack that will grind to a halt soon. Time will tell. Russians have been reporting to have inflicted heavy casualties on UAF in last three days, but that have been saying this for months now, so I don't think it's worth taking that into consideration too much.
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>>44303 Nikolaevsky misk has been blown up at Bakhmutka richka, Bakhmut. so west part of the city is cut off from the rest of the city.
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LMAO
>>44310 Oh yeah, full list https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html And this is just the stuff that was visibly confirmed and identified. Vatniks eternally btfo
>>44308 I just realized I wrote Bakhmut twice. Why do slavs write like this when re-translating it to English?
>>44308 >so west part of the city is cut off from the rest of the city. Some sort of localized encirclement then? I doubt they can achieve much more than that, unless they are supported by another pincer. Also >Russian advance also reported on Spornoe
>>44312 I imagine it's got to do with identifying the administrative district, like saying "Houston County, Houston, Texas" to specify you mean the city of Houston in Houston County in Texas Oblast, and not for instance Matanuska-Susitna Borough, Houston, Alaska- the city of Houston in Matanuska-Susitna Borough in Alaska.
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>>44310 >By Stijn Mitzer and Jakub Janovsky Am I supposed to take this seriously just because they put Mitzer's name first?
>>44310 >>44315 To humor you though I went through some if the images and I stand by my statement. The tank gore from the Ukrainian losses mostly look like they've been utterly wrecked beyond repair while most of the tank gore from the Russian losses look like they're still functional or refurbishable. Additionally many of the tank losses appear to be surplus Soviet Shit from the early Kiev/Sumy conflicts which lines up with shitposting about it at the time.
>>44316 Stay asshurt vatnik
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Belgorod and Kursk, shelters bomb shelter signs are being posted because of shelling happening at the border.
>>44320 I assumed they did this after the first time Ukraine sent helicopters in to blow shit up. They're only now getting around to this?
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Apparently Putin met with some working class soldiers' moms. He made sure that all the Russian minorities were recognized in the meeting which is pretty rare for Russia to focus on. I know it's propaganda, but he made sure to include people who's sons were active duty, wounded, and dead, which is the kind of sit-down media Western governments would never do. http://kremlin.ru/events/president/news/69935 https://archive.is/Wq5VT
>>44323 Those were revealed as actors like 4 days ago you moskal cum slurper
>>44324 The Western Press ran Star Wars footage as Ukraine War footage and you want me to believe anything they say, Germ? Considering some of the pointed questions asked were the kind of stuff you'd get arrested on the streets in Moscow for, I think you should do your research instead of sucking the Associated Press' dick.
>>44310 >5000 destroyed tonks >>44322 >2908 lost tonks So, which one is it?
Six gorillion vatnik tanks destroyed, glorious Ukrainian forces have liberated Tver (soon to be renamed Banderopol) from the evil putler regime.
>n-no, Russia retreating on all fronts and drafting another 500k criminals and old men means they are winning!
>No you're supposed to be running out of missiles! >N-No you aren't allowed to restock troops just roll over and die already! >W-Why aren't Ukrainian freedom fighters already at the gates of Sankt Petersbourgh REEEEEEEEEEEE Do we really have to go here?
>>44331 No the fact that they are bombing Ukraine back to the literal dark ages means they're winning. >>44230
Apparently there's three "new" Russian jets entering mass production. Think we'll get to see them against F-35s in this war?
>>44334 >what do you mean "Losing the war"?? we have hundreds of V1 rockets hitting London! States don't go for these temper tantrum vengeance campaigns when they are winning
>>44335 Russia can't even produce cars anymore, lmao
Mercouris doesn't think an ultimatum was actually given to Bakhmut since he can't find anything from the Russian MoD. >>44336 States don't mobilize women when they're winning either. Let's review though... >Russia is losing because they can't keep enough troops to placate partisan groups >Oh no they placated the partisan groups with pensions and food aid! >Russia is losing because they can't advance without blowing up civilian infrastructure >Oh no Russia started blowing up high rises! >Russia is losing because they can't stop the electric trains delivering troops/supplies >Oh no! Russia is blowing up the energy infrastructure! >Russia is losing because they don't have enough men >Oh no! Russia is mobilizing! >Russia is losing because all the mobilized veterans are old >Just ignore Ukraine mobilizing old men starting back in May and women over the summer I don't want to use the word cope but come on now, anon.
>>44337 They can't get ahold of airbags and ABS systems. They've already waived those requirements starting February 2023 if manufacturers can't figure it out before then. The ABS system waiver is pretty scary though since those are nice in snowy places.
>>44335 >Think we'll get to see them against F-35s in this war? Well that depends on whether or not the F-35s stay in the sky long enough to ever meat the Russian jets.
>>44340 *meet
>>44322 so audacious with their claims
>>44322 it seems most of these figures are 10x the actual amount. srsly, just remove the last digit, and it suddenly becomes believable. >8,970 troops >290 tanks >189 artillery >155 drones >27 planes >53 cruise missiles shot down (hits don't count obv) etc. the only exception is boats/cutters, which seems to be more than double (I guess they realized they couldn't lie too infamously there). >>44338 I've noticed a number of the braincucked believe that Russia's missile strikes are a spergout, rather than a calculated escalation of the conflict. Granted, you can't win a war entirely by air, but it works in tandem with other fronts, where despite the propaganda, Russians are winning. >>44277 >I really have my doubts everything has been going according to plan for Russia, there's too much pointing to the opposite, i don't think Russia is losing or failing miserably at all, but neither can you just trust the plan I read an interesting theory the other day, that GAE's plan was for Russia to blitzkrieg and capture all of Ukraine, so that the West could support a long-term insurgency and gradually drain Russia's resources; eventually toppling Russia's gov't with a color revolution, then subversion, AIDS, and the usual. But Russia avoided this trap entirely and has inverted it on GAE, by waging a limited war emphasizing artillery and air strikes, they can burn through Western resources and pull GAE into a downward spiral instead. It's a viable take on this at least. >>44274 I don't think China needs lebensraum. They'll continue with their belt & road initiative.
>>44345 >Russia avoided this trap entirely LMAO Yeah Russia got its elite formations smashed ON PURPOSE.
When is the ground projected to be frozen enough for both sides to make mechanized assaults? >>44322 >Kiev Independent Wasn't this the same rag that said Russia lost 10k in the first week while Ukraine only lost 500? Ukraine has been fudging numbers harder than Russia since day one. I swear its always German IPs peddling this kind of clear bullshit non-stop.
>>44348 Ground is freezing now so it should be cold enough in a week or two.
Antiwar Activists Who Flee Russia Find Detention, Not Freedom, in the U.S. Many asylum seekers are released and allowed to argue their cases later in court. But thousands are sent to detention centers, where it is difficult to secure lawyers and collect evidence, and the chances of winning asylum are extremely slim. ICE has not released statistics on the nationalities of migrants being held behind bars, but lawyers who work regularly with migrants say Russian asylum seekers appear to have been detained at relatively high rates in recent months — sometimes with bonds set in excess of $30,000. Some Russians have remained incarcerated for months under conditions they describe as extremely harsh. “Proportionately, compared to people from other countries, there are more Russians being sent to detention,” said Svetlana Kaff, a San Francisco-based immigration lawyer who said she has been flooded with requests for help. Like the young doctors who were held in Louisiana, many said they had come to the United States thinking they would be welcomed as allies in America’s push for democracy in Russia and Ukraine. Olga Nikitina, who fled Russia with her husband after he was imprisoned there multiple times, spent five months in the same facility as Ms. Shemiatina. “The whole time I was there, they treated us like garbage,” said Ms. Nikitina, 33. “I called hotlines, but it did not help in any way” Her husband, Aleksandr Balashov, 33, was detained for four months at a facility in Batavia, N.Y., where he says officers told him and others that they had no rights because they had entered the country illegally. Ivan Sokolovski, 25, another activist, has been held at Pine Prairie for seven months. He recently lost his asylum case and said he fears that he will be deported to his death. “It would have been more humane to be shot dead at the border than to be held in prison so long,” he said. https://us.knews.media/news/antiwar-activists-who-flee-russia-find-detention-not-freedom-in-the-u-s/ https://archive.ph/dSnGw
>>44345 >srsly, just remove the last digit, and it suddenly becomes believable. Sorry but no, i have no doubt Ukrainians have exaggerated their numbers, but still, halving their numbers i'd find believable
>>44350 Amazing that they can't find the cells or time to deal with Mexicans but Russians can be persecuted all day long when they come in on the same Mexican caravans.
>>44331 >Russia retreating on all fronts Are we not looking at the same maps or is one of us completely retarded? But which one?
>>44352 Is because they are too white.
Apparently Wagner PMC's head honcho has come out in an interview and said that the goal in Bakhmut was never to capture the city but to inflict the maximum number of Ukrainian casualties. That'd explain why they've not made any progress for months despite piles of dead Hohols.
>>44356 A modern Verdun? will we still be debating if that was true or just a retroactive justification in a hundred years?
>>44269 >Destroying our highways while expecting the city to pay for it are their specialty. I believe it. I only see their convoys on the interstate - which fed pays for. I bet they sing you the "but stationed service members drive local business and tax revenues" song about the roads. >>44339 >The ABS system waiver is pretty scary though since those are nice in snowy places. ABS is shit in deep snow and ice, gets in the way more than it helps and people who are qualified to drive would turn it off anyway
>>44350 pottery
>>44357 >will we still be debating if that was true or just a retroactive justification in a hundred years? Depends on how far Russia pushes. If Russia ends up taking Kharkiv/Sumy/Chernihiv then I'd say it was a sound strategy. Ukraine's been dedicating troops upon troops to Bakhmut (I've heard 7:1 K:D ratios of dead Ukrainians to dead Russians) to the point where they've depleted their armor and veteran troops. If they had simply taken Bakhmut, then those troops would have been withdrawn to Kharkiv or Sumy or West of the Dniepr, but if those troops were wasted in Bakhmut that would mean that Ukraine is weakened to a degree that they couldn't hold off a proper Russian advance down the line. We probably won't have an idea of whether that's cope or not until February but if it isn't I expect the war to get spicy next year.
>>44352 There's this myth americans detain mexicans or want to, that is a complete lie, americans detain "skilled" (read: need a college degree for it) labour mexicans/latins to avoid them winning places the chinamen and the pajeets have (alongside jews) while letting in the "low" skill (read: manual labour skill that can hardly be taught at school) and the cartel links because that's the real business, the former do all the jobs low-tier whites and niggers don't want to do for cheap in the former case and where not enough middle east immigrants are to supply the work pool (some states do have tons of arabs willing to do construction work) and the cartel links and operatives are glow assets so cannot detain business partners of the government. You will see some dude with an engineer degree get detained in some random town in Arizona but some low life midget monkey with 0 (zero) english will live 10 years in Texas because reasons, another coke-addict will enjoy roaming around bars in some southwest city downtown while open carrying and driving like a banshee on a pimped economy sedan while a dude with a degree on agronomy systems will get detained at a farm up north and the owner charged for hosting him because he's a danger and the John Deere tractor he was using had an illegal USB plugged in that makes the GPS/auto system more accurate (due to a paid firmware hack) which is a crime against humanity for some reason.
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Reports of continued Russian advance. As of this morning there are reports of Russians capturing Klischiivka. Unofficial pro Russian sources, so you know, grain of salt.
>>44363 That map shows they also got into Pidhorodne, so I feel like a tactical genius right now.
>>44364 Encirclement is the most sound tactic here. It's much easier to fight an opponent that's drained of supplies and ammo. I doubt theres much civvies left in Bakhmut anyway, so putting it in pocket sould be attempted. Even Ukrainian side has admitted the situation there is deteriorating rapidly for UAF,but it remains to be seen if RuAF can capitalize on it. But still, we should wait for official statement if such advance was really made. This movement could have been just a recon force that was overhyped.
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Encirclement seems to be the approach Russia is gaining ground with at the moment. Europe's response is to purchase more Russian LNG.
>>44370 >Europe's response is to purchase more Russian LNG. Are they going to memory hole being united against Russia?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXDAZBzXPNA DPA did a short video explaining what's going on in Bakhmut and why West of Bakhmut is more important than North-East of Bakhmut.
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>European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, in her video speech, announced the deaths of more than 100,000 Ukrainian servicemen since the outbreak of hostilities. Haven't found the video to confirm it, but if true, goddamn, that's some attrition rate.
>>44381 Its pretty crazy to think about, used to watch a ukrop youtuber who got drafted, even the devs of gsc would definitely be drafted if they hadn't got out in time. We are seeing the death of a country in real time, and who knows how much will be really left of it in the end. All because of a sociopathic corrupt actor who trusted the only creatures more malicious than him.
>>44381 Never trust politicians and never trust eu. Its never as bad as you think it is, but never as good as you hope it to be. If they really lost so much officers the fields of corpses would be visible from orbit and we would have proof from the ground.
>>44382 >We are seeing the death of a country in real time, and who knows how much will be really left of it in the end Even if Ukrainians somehow win, there's gonna be so much devastation to their economy that I doubt they would bounce back in next couple of decades. This, in combination with massive emigration of their population to both East and West leaves them with in very difficult situation. The only thing they kinda have going for them is massive financial injections from the West, and once they are no longer of any use to them, the West will cut off their funding. I doubt anybody actually gives a fuck about Ukraine, but as long as they fight Russia, they're useful. >>44383 100.000 is number for both the officers and the grunts,not just officers alone. I don't even think any country in the world has that large of a officer corps. The question is, why would they state casulties so publicly, as official stance for Ukrainians is that they took only 9000 KIA's so far? You guys have any information about Polish citizens killed in Ukraine? The Russians claim they took out ~1.300 "Polish mercenaries"so far, any truth to that?
>>44382 > We are seeing the death of a country in real time Russia, yeah.
>>44389 Any day now...
Dima seems to think that Russia has about a month to take Bakhmut before they'll be forced to retreat from the areas North of the city due to troop losses from Ukrainian artillery. That being said, he looked over rail/electrical maps and also noted that Russian advances South of the city have bottlenecked rail transportation to the Donbass to only a handful of points which the Russians are frequently bombing. From the sounds of it Ukraine has the choice of redeploying armored units in Nikolaev to the Donbass front and risk losing them altogether, or to abandon Bakhmut which would cause a domino effect potentially ending the Donbass campaign entirely and costing Ukraine more soldiers in the long-term.
>>44390 Not soon or quickly, but it will happen. Russia can't even bully its CSTO puppets into joining the war anymore
>>44395 >it will happen. Sure, but in about 20 years, way after winning in Ukraine
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>>44352 WHITER THAN U MOHAMMED
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>>44398 Is that guy Finnish?
A bunch of Western European leaders coming out reaffirming their pledges to Ukraine all around the same time. Last time they did this mass meatbag robot spam was right before Russia took back most of Luhansk. Reported shelling of the highways/Trainways West of Bakhmut. It's not a full encirclement, but Ukraine has to basically divert troops along the East bank of the Dniepr up from Zaporizhia train lines (getting shelled constantly) to Dnipro then out, or down from Kiev (lack of power for train stations) towards the Donbass. I know the ongoing joke is "just wait and see" but if Russia can either cut off the Western train routes or push North enough to start shelling the Northern train routes it could collapse the ent
Damn it. It could collapse the entire Ukrainian defensive line.* Dima might have been right on this one and Ukraine is going to have to either redeploy their Nikolaev armor to the Donbass (meaning no amphibious assault in Spring) or waste a lot of men (significantly more than they have lost up until now) if they don't intend to retreat. The lack of artillery munitions for Ukraine will be a contributing factor.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=_rxNKc0Rz3Y HistoryLegends points out how Bakhmut is similar to various WWI situations and what's at stake better than I can.
France backs plans for tribunal for Russian officials over Ukraine war https://archive.ph/dlBoS >Paris is first major western country to publicly support proposal for special court to try for crime of aggression The relationship between Russia and the collective west clearly passed the point of no return a while ago, so it's just the cherry on the cake.
>>44405 >waste a lot of men (significantly more than they have lost up until now) How much longer until the UAF needs to conscript <16 and >60 year olds in order to fill their existing ranks, assuming they haven't done so already?
>>44409 There are roughly nine million Ukrainian males aged 25 - 54. If you poach a little on the 20's cohort at a mobilization rate of 10% you're looking at a million man army. (Assuming that Ukraine doesn't mobilize at an even higher rate because they're a NATO welfare queen at this point which produces nothing and has basically no domestic economy for men to work in.) So I gotta ask: If you really think their army is on the verge of breaking due to attrition, exactly how many casualties do you think they've taken? UKRAINE 0-14 years: 16.16% (male 3,658,127/female 3,438,887) 15-24 years: 9.28% (male 2,087,185/female 1,987,758) 25-54 years: 43.66% (male 9,456,905/female 9,718,758) 55-64 years: 13.87% (male 2,630,329/female 3,463,851) 65 years and over: 17.03% (male 2,523,600/female 4,957,539) (2020 est.) https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/countries/ukraine/#people-and-society For comparison, if Russia wanted the textbook 3:1 attacker:defender ratio they'd need to mobilize/conscript at roughly the same 10% rate in the fighting age cohort. RUSSIA 0-14 years: 17.24% (male 12,551,611/female 11,881,297) 15-24 years: 9.54% (male 6,920,070/female 6,602,776) 25-54 years: 43.38% (male 30,240,260/female 31,245,104) 55-64 years: 14.31% (male 8,808,330/female 11,467,697) 65 years and over: 15.53% (male 7,033,381/female 14,971,679) (2020 est.) https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/countries/russia/#people-and-society Which ironically is about the same overall proportion the U.S. conscripted during the Vietnam war: >During the Vietnam War era, between 1964 and 1973, the U.S. military drafted 2.2 million American men out of an eligible pool of 27 million https://michiganintheworld.history.lsa.umich.edu/antivietnamwar/exhibits/show/exhibit/draft_protests/the-military-draft-during-the- And we all know how popular that was. (I love that the Wagner Group is using a fucked up Slavic penal version of McNamara's Morons while somehow managing to be one of the most successful Russian formations in the field.)
>>44390 First Israel.
>BBC headline: "Russia uses dud nuclear missile against Ukraine" >it takes multiple hours for them to make the obvious correction to "dummy nuclear-capable missile" which has VERY DIFFERENT implications Fucking bongs.
>>44409 They already did that back in May/June. Explained why below. >>44410 The attrition issue is less about the size of the army and more about how the army is trained and utilized. From what I can gather, Ukrainians have to choose between using their limited trains to gather their injured/dead or to resupply troops already there on the front lines. An army has to be fed, clothed, sheltered, and armed. While Ukrainian farmers have been allowed to avoid conscription because food production is one of the few industries still functioning in Ukraine, the fact of the matter is whether it's a soldier or a civilian tradesman running contracts for the military, a war-time economy is not a productive one and Ukraine is already reliant on foreign loans to purchase supplies in exchange for debt meaning they have a fixed amount of resources. Every dead Ukrainian is one less "economic unit" to keep Ukraine afloat both in the short-term but more importantly in the long-term. Because soldiers have to be fed/clothed/sheltered/trained/etc. and because Russia is using a remote bombing strategy (negating the conventional 3:1 requirement of the attacker), you can only shove so many people into a single space before the UAF is using more supplies than they can replenish in a given region. This is exasperated by trench warfare which means you actually have to supply soldiers with the things they need as defenders instead of being able to centralize mess halls and such in the rear (the way the Russians largely do to save on lost supplies when someone gets offed). All of this coalesces into an "upper limit" of how many troops that can be thrown in a region. They might have a million men, but 60-70% of them are guarding the border or working in regionalized logistics and can't be pulled from their posts, meaning new men must be trained to replace dead men. Obviously in an "ideal world" Ukraine can just maintain that amount of supplies, but as deaths pile up you have to deal with the dead bodies (disease and famine have historically killed more people in war than anything else). More importantly veterans aren't made by sitting in a trench for a few weeks; they're made by months of training followed by years of practice. Attrition both eats away at Ukraine's physical resources (food, clothing, ammunition), but also their veterans that can't simply be replaced resulting in more casualties (more casualties meaning less supplies due to more time spent cleaning up or exponentially more casualties from disease and loss of morale from the constant stench of death). Ukraine isn't literally losing a war of attrition in the sense that they are going to one day run out of men, but in the sense that they are one day going to run out of the ability to supply new men taking the place of lost men since it's a constant balancing act between cleaning up dead men and supply troops, as happened in Lysychansk.
I say explained below and didn't explain below. Part of the reason Ukraine started to conscript old men is because sometimes you reach a point where the old man in his 60s is more useful than the new recruit fresh out of high school because the old man doesn't need additional training and actually uses less resources between his age and veteran status.
>>44407 It's good that it's becoming certain that the Russian butchers will face justice at the end of this.
>>44406 good video, thanks. it's fascinating to see elements of WWI re-emerge in this conflict.
>>44424 Only if they lose.
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>>44407 Sure. Why not. We're obviously not getting out of this thing without at least a moderate nuclear exchange. Might as well just go for the goal I guess. On that same note Latvia Calls For NATO To Allow Ukrainian Strikes Inside Russian Territory https://archive.ph/LQef6 >Latvian Foreign Minister Edgars Rinkevics called for NATO to allow Ukraine to conduct strikes inside Russian territory, adding the alliance should not fear Moscow’s response. The White House has resisted sending Kiev missiles with the range to hit targets inside Russia. >During an interview on the sidelines of NATO summit in Romania, Rinkevics stated "[w]e should allow Ukrainians to use weapons to target missile sites or air fields from where those operations are being launched." Allies "should not fear" escalation from Moscow, he added.
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>>44436 EU states agree $60 a barrel cap on Russian oil after Polish green light https://archive.ph/XPjzi
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>>44436 There will not be a nuclear war, even a limited one. Unless of course israel is threatened for some reason.
>>44437 Weird I remember them losing a million half of a year ago already. >>44410 >For comparison, if Russia wanted the textbook 3:1 attacker:defender ratio they'd need to mobilize/conscript at roughly the same 10% rate in the fighting age cohort. Yeah but they are defending. >>44438 This is such a retarded idea to begin with.
>>44442 This whole idea of coming off Russian energy is already beyond retarded. >Europe stops buying Russian, start buying from everywhere else for a higher price >this causes an artificial shortage, bringing up the global price >Russia starts selling oil&gas everywhere else, the higher transportation price is offset by the higher global price >overall nothing changes, except that energy is more expensive for everyone, but especially for European countries >but only until the new system of trade stabilizes, and then Russia's main partners will be India and China, alongside all the third world countries where people don't care about some hwite devils slaughtering each other over some border dispute or whatever >overall nothing really changes It could have worked together with seizing all the Russian assets if it was done under a week, and they also put on a blockade around all the Russian ports. But that would have escalated this conflict into a nuclear war, not to mention that Europe would have been ruined even without the nukes in that case. Really, if they wanted to do this, then the best solution would have been to quietly and gradually stop buying Russian oil, without making a fuss about it.
>>44442 >>44410 Force multiplication is a literal math equation used by strategists (X^2-Y^2)and the 3:1 ratio refers to a localized point to break through a defense, casualties being irrelevant to the calculation. As an example Napoleon consistently had fewer troops than the defenders in his conquests, but Napoleon was a master of diversionary tactics and would attack several towns at once with token forces to split the enemy force then redirect his troops to a focal point to break through enemy lines. The 3:1 ratio just means you need 3x as many forces at a specific localized point to consistently break through the defender's entrenchment (casualties are irrelevant).
>>44445 But then Clausewitz wrote that simplifying war into mathematical equations is fake and gay.
>>44446 They are fake and gay but they are good approximations. Kind of like how Newtonian physics are fake and gay, but they're good enough for designing a car engine because you don't need 100% accuracy to make a good prediction.
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>>44444 >implying they were ever going to stop buying slavpetrol in the first place only replying because holy shit those digits
>>44444 Checked
>>44444 Whether you believe it's conspiratorial or just opportunistic and whether you believe Russia is in on it or just profiting off it, Western countries are intent on a Great Reset so higher petrol/hydrocarbon costs play right into that.
>>44444 The quads goes to sideways Italy.
>>44447 >they are good approximations Good for what though? If the equations are comparing how many pounds on meat are on the battlefield then long range artillery, drones and armored vehicles are practically divine intervention. >good enough for designing a car engine because you don't need 100% accuracy This is why you drive pic related. >>44449 >>44452 >quads We can't even count to 5 quints apparently.
>>44453 I read somewhere on twitter that the technicals they sent to Ukraine lasted 10 days on the front. Don't know if he was shilling or if he was telling the truth. There seems to donate bots on every twitter post that talks anything negatively about Ukraine
>>44453 It's assuming roughly equivalent equipment, naturally. If you put 1000 Zulus against 10 marines with air, artillery, and drone support and an APC, the marines are gonna win.
Did Zelensky really ban the local orthodox christian churhes from holding mass due to being linked to russian churches
>>44458 Yes and no. He asked parliament to do it for him. It's important to note that Ukraine has had an autonomous church separate from Russia for decades, but only officially put in an autocephalous request in 2018 (approved in 2019 because the way Church "law" works it should have happened decades ago but hadn't because of close ties between the countries). He isn't banning the autocephalous church of Ukraine; he's banning the autocephalous church of Russia and Ukraine which hierarchically would be something of a "big brother" to the autocephalous church of Ukraine but who reports to Russia. Equal but socially of higher standing. Officially that sect reports to the patriarchate of Kiev but unofficially they have great respect for the patriarchate of Moscow and tend to listen to them in spiritual matters. Basically Zelensky is exploiting a mostly doctrinal separation for rule-related reasons in order to force an ideological separation along authoritarian guidelines. Seeing how the church acted under the USSR in response to Communist aggression (something Lukashenko doesn't even dare risk as a self-proclaimed "communist") he risks making the church his enemy if Ukraine's parliament follows through on the demand.
I think it's also important yo mention that this is something of a "civil war" within the Orthodox church comparable to the split between Orthodoxy and Catholicism or Catholicism and Protestantism. The two primary "pillars" of the Orthodox church were the Greek Orthodox Church and the Russian Orthodox Church. The Greek church supported the autocephalous patriarchate of Kiev while obviously the Russian church supported the patriarchate of Moscow. The two have excommunicated one another since 2019 over this decision. Well, they've ceased cross-cultural services and communications to one another which is essentially excommunication. Not unusual between smaller branches of the church but a big deal for the two pillars.
>>44458 Apparently one of the priest, Archimandrite Nikita was caught in bed with a 17 year old boy https://lb.ua/society/2022/11/25/537108_obshuki_chernivetskobukovinskiy.html
>>44461 I don't blame him tbh. If I had a position that gave me access to cute barely-legal twink ass, and the authority to keep it quiet, I'd be all over that.
>>44461 >>44463 On one hand seeing as how he was in-line to become a figurehead of the Ukrainian church sect it wouldn't surprise me. On the other hand, Nikita is taking it in stride and claiming that the Ukrainian soldiers ordered them all to undress at gunpoint before photographing them in their skivvies suggesting this is Ukrainian gestapo propaganda since solely sedition charges wouldn't look good to the public and they still have to maintain an image when committing religious persecution. I dunno, man.
>>44463 I wouldn't want to be a priest though, it bastardizes the faith. >>44464 Yeah Ukies don't have blind trust at all especially with their propaganda. This is preem food for the reddit athiest weirdos too that are rabid about muh slava ukraini

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