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WAR IN THE CAUCUS REGION 2 Strelok 10/24/2020 (Sat) 05:25:10 No.7830
Previous Thread >>6332 https://archive.is/SCXtf >Armenia Shot Down Drone Suffering Heavy Losses In Azerbijaniani Strikes https://archive.vn/cpLdk >Armenians Claim They Shot Down Another Bayraktar TB2 Over Nagorno-Karabakh https://archive.is/Rd2r0 >Azerbaijani Forces Rush To Capture Lachin Cororidor From Retreating Armenians
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https://archive.is/oP3ov >Colonel Shukur Hamidov, the national hero of Azerbaijan, died during clashes in Nagorno-Karabakh Also here is picture of Az losses so far. It is coming from the Armenian Governments twitter so take it with a grain of salt. But I can't find any official statement on Azerbaijani losses from their government so this is all we got to go on. https://archive.is/trUjg
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>>7836 > 24 planes The azeris have 27 combat craft total. 48 if you include transport and trainers. >206 UAVs I wonder if they are county small commercial drones like the ones regular civvies in the USA can buy? Bare in mind this is a single source.... So I anyone else with numbers is happy to contribute. Meanwhile the armenians have 17 (-1 downed) aircraft that are combat capable. Supposedly (If wikipedia and the azeri source translated is to be trusted I don't), the Armenians have lost the southern part of the Area on the border in Fuzuli in Iran. It seems they took the line following the E202 highway. I think the Azeris are overextending. The iranians won't help them, so what if the Armenians just cut the off? Take a look at my shitty MS paint map explain this. It's hemmed in by a mountain ridge to the north, and to the south it's hemmed in by an international border and a river.
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>>7837 Christ almighty, the Armenians are pulling another pincer attack.
How long do you think this will remain a limited war? other than some claimed missile attacks on major cities the fighting has remained limited to Artsakh hasn't it? looking at the map Armenia has several juicy targets to the north in striking distance. >>7838 Damn i hope so, that's a very significant advance from the azeris
>>7839 >How long do you think this will remain a limited war? Honestly, i don't think it'll go anywhere beyond the disputed border. My reasoning for this is that there's barely any value for both sides to re-enact the Iran-Iraq war since no major player in the region had yet to throw their hat into the ring besides Turkey and that the region is just an unurbanized border town up in the mountains. Meanwhile, Armenia is backed by basically no one but themselves, however they're taking it like a champ so far.
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>>7836 >6,539 I know the rest of those are pretty heavy losses too, but isn't that about 12-14% of the Azeri army? It's closer to 7% of their armed forces accounting for the Chairforce/Navy/National Guard, but that's still a huge percentage. Isn't about 5% the point at which you have to start promoting retards to officer positions and 15-20% the point at which military command completely breaks down or a ceasefire is required?
>>7837 >That moment when the Azeris might fall for it twice Unless the Armenians are also stretched thin.
Not sure where else to post this. But now the watermelon-merchant has done it. Archive.is isn't working, so no nice archived versions for now. https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20201024-france-recalls-envoy-after-erdogan-jibe-at-macron https://www.dw.com/en/erdogan-says-macron-needs-mental-treatment-blasts-europes-islamophobia/a-55385180 >"What can one say about a head of state who treats millions of members from different faith groups this way: first of all, have mental checks," Erdogan said in a televised address in the central Anatolian city of Kayseri. >President Erdogan's comments are unacceptable. Excess and rudeness are not a method. We demand that Erdogan change the course of his policy because it is dangerous in every respect," the official told AFP. >But the Elysee official said that Erdogan had two months to reply to the demands for a change in stance and that it ends its "dangerous adventures" in the eastern Mediterranean and "irresponsible conduct" over Karabakh. tldr; France recalls it's ambassador from Turkey. I don't think much of anything will come out of this, as Karabakh will most likely have been fully occupied by Azeri-Turkish troops within two months, and Greeks will do their usual thing of doing nothing while turks do whatever they want.
>>7871 >Unless the Armenians are also stretched thin. Sadly i think that's quite likely, Azerbaijan simply has more men and material, maybe they can afford those losses and still make headway.
>>7868 Me thinks casualties means KIA+WIA+MIA total in this case. >>7839 Armenia is threatened and in the "weaker" overall situation. >>7841 I disagree, the Iranians are watching very closely since the Iranians hate the Azeris for promtoting independence in NW iran. Could turn into a Tur/Ira proxy conflict with Russian stuck in the middle selling arms to both sides. >>7876 >Marcon He's Merkel with no bite. Unless the DGSE or the DGSI have CIA tier reach and ability to coup Edrogan Possible not likely me thinks. Although, Edrogan seems to be shooting himself in the foot, I say let him. >greeks They can't even run a small economy, you trust them to fight the turks? Turkey is now claiming kurds are fighting with the Armenians, I can't wait to see the Turks melt down because the kurds btfo them again
>>7880 The Iranians are moving assets up to the border that the Azeris claim to have taken full control of. Apparently there have been threats made against Americans in the capital of Azerbaijian, Baku. Yesterday Adam Schiff of the Democrats decided to announce his public support of Artsakh. Same threats also came from Turkey. This is getting retarded.
>>7884 Armenian lobby in USA is 2nd most powerful after the jewish state lobby, Question is whos got more power right now I think the armenian lobby wins this one since they have the support of the greeks and most of the kebab hating lobbies too Schiff wants to see it burn so they can claim muh president is a warmonger and ask for us intervention OIL YOU DUMB BASTARD
>>7876 >Archive.is isn't working, so no nice archived versions for now. >implying archive.today isn't already under the thumb of merchants You know Anon, I bet Wayback is working just fine atm.
>>7887 >have the US, Iran, and Saudi Arabia on the same side for Caucasian oil and Turkish butthurt What have the Armenians done?
>>7891 Armenia mostly caused a bunch of human rights violations in the 2010s that had Obama cut off a lot of their funding. Then when Trump took power he wanted to make sure the Jews knew he was taking an anti-Iran stance, so he supplied the Azeris with a lot of their shit. It's not so much what the Armenians have done and more that they are not as hostile towards Iran as Azerbaijan is and they got fucked by Obama without ever recovering.
>>7892 Ehh anything King Nigger Obongo supported was, by default, wrong. The rest simply follows.
>>7893 King Nigger supported the Iran Nuclear Deal which was objectively the best decision.
>>7895 Was that out of his own will though or because the SEALs had been captured a few weeks before it was agreed on? A man getting fucked in the ass declaring "I'm gay!" to save face was never the one in charge, and does nothing to stop the ass pounding.
>>7907 Considering the talks were months in the making before the SEALs incident, I'm going to say yes. The cost to warhawk politicians of approving that deal was far greater than the lives of some faggots in the navy. Go to bed, grandpa. Fucking Boomer Neocons, can't even get away from them here.
>>7912 >the cost to warhawk politicians >implying it cost them anything when the US was already fighting multiple wars across the globe
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Possible Turkish F-16s seen on satellite imagery at Gabala Airbase in Azerbaijian. https://web.archive.org/web/20201025162203/https://twitter.com/AuroraIntel/status/1320379131452948490 >>7837 Did you forget the Azeris have an exclave on the other side of Artsakh?
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Azeris claim to have taken out an S-300 battery, and claim the following amount of Armenian assets have been destroyed by drones: >56 T-72 tanks >23 armoured fighting vehicles >29 artillery pieces >41 multiple rocket launchers >13 SAM systems >6 radars >80 trucks >At the loss of one drone. https://web.archive.org/web/20201020154523/https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1318578723042492419
>>7920 >azeris still haven't posted their own losses Couldn't care less what they claim when they must be taking hard losses themselves.
>>7920 Why don't militaries have SPAA to counter these drones? I don't see how a drone would stand a chance against one, especially if the vehicle has APS on it. It's no longer possible to go to battle without constant air defence.
>>7918 Most of the wars the US participated in were us acting as a proxy for Israel or Saudi Arabia. A deal legitimizing Iran hurts the political rhetoric used to get us into the ME since most of the time Iran or Russia is by proxy helping the opposing sides in those wars most of the time to keep US interests from getting closer to them (other countries were too, but America's eyes have been on Iran since WWII ended). Democrats are just as much warhawks as Republicans, thus I'm stating the SEAL argument is illegitimate since a few dead SEALs is nothing compared to the lost bipartisan justification for war in the Middle East.
>>7922 Because these shit for brains idiots either got rid of their tunguskas and shilkas and didn't replace them with anything other than lol missiles.
>>7922 Suicide drones only became a viable strategy for large-scale warfare rather than terror threats around two years ago when drone technology (specifically fiberoptic gyroscopes) loaded with munitions became cheaper or comparable to missiles/small-ordinance explosives since drones need more accurate gyroscopes than far more aerodynamic short-range missiles do. Most underfunded/less tech-savvy militaries are used to being able to take out helicopters with old bolt-action rifles so they probably were under the impression that the drones worked like helicopters and would be close enough to the ground to take pot shots at them. This war is being watched very heavily around the world because Russia has made the major push towards implementing drones as part of their military forces in combat positions instead of strictly surveillance missions, and everyone wants to see what countermeasures the Armenians will come up with. This strategy will likely become unviable within a decade as other countries develop countermeasures until someone gets it right, but it's still interesting to watch.
>>7921 I mean we only have the Armenian stats up there so wanted to present the Azeris kills. I ezpect any casualty rolls from them to be just as manipulated, though large numbers will probably be mercs.
Another ceasefire has been brokered, this time by the United States.
>>7935 How long would you bet either the Azers or Armenians breaks it within a week? I mean what will the US do when they break it anyways? Force sanctions on both of them? You know that Armenians are nearing Jew-level minority power in the US. Especially in the upper rung of society.
>>7936 Source.
>>7939 They have a powerful lobby but they're nowhere near jew level softpower. That anon is being a little weaselly about how jews exercise power.
Erdogan calling for an embargo on French goods. What do the Turks even buy from the French, and do they do so in any significant quantities?
>>7947 He's probably misconstruing amount spent and actual power. The Armenian Lobby used to have some serious clout back in the 90s, but they've since been overtaken by the Turkish Lobby in America for influencing politics. Most of the Armenian Lobby's goals have been subdued in recent years by Turkish lobbying efforts that try to paint them as Jews.
>>7951 France provides Turkey with about $5.6 Billion in trade annually, and allegedly earns more money from Turkey than Turkey earns from them in trade. This trade accounts for a little under 1% of Turkey's GDP, but then Saudi Arabia also just embargoed Turkish goods so between the two Turkey is taking a pretty serious hit (1% of GDP is a big deal when annual GDP growth is usually measured in the 1-4% range). Perhaps more importantly, France provides Turkey with a lot of their cars, pharmaceuticals, and construction materials (and apparently indirectly controls a large percentage of Turkey's power grid).
>>7936 >How long would you bet either the Azers or Armenians breaks it within a week? Try minutes kek. https://archive.is/lPFhr >Accusations Of Ceasefire Violations Literally Less Than A Minute After Its Imposed In Nagorno-Karabakh https://archive.is/Erkdc >Armenia And Azerbaijan Boast Their Military Successes Amid Another Failed Ceasefire As Turkish Proxies Suffer From Russian Strikes In Syria So according to this map have the azeris only taken the blue area or am I a retard? Is that the boasting about massive gains I've been seeing them do? Also in the same article 78 Turkish backed militants killed and around 100 wounded in Faylaq al-Sham Syria by Russian air strikes. I miss the Middle East threads should I make one or does someone else want to?
>>7959 The massive gains are the grayish stuff, and those are quite substantial, i wonder if the Armenians even have the capacity to counterattack at this point, seems drones really did a number on them. >should I make one or does someone else want to? Go for it
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>>7960 Okay yea I didn't read it properly, those are some pretty big gains. Did Armenia take back their land on the Iranian border in the south? I remember seeing that the Azeris said the completely captured it around a week ago. >I wonder if the Armenians even have the capacity to counterattack at this point, seems drones really did a number on them Yea those drones fucked them pretty hard. I don't think they can muster a massive counterattack Maybe a small on the Murov Mountain front but they seem spread really thin as it is. The only way I think that a massive counterattack could happen would be if Russia got directly involved or at least sent specialists and a lot of equipment which I think is highly improbable. Maybe if the roach's keep antagonizing Russia in Syria or do some Armenia genocide 2 shit Russia would just say fuck it and wipe the Turks and Azeris out. But at this point that's just my autistic fantasy. I will make the Middle East thread either later tonight or tomorrow.
>>7963 I think the Iranians will get involved. It's a strategic issue for them and it's a red line. If Russia has its hands tied, Iran does not. And we all know that the US won't be fighting in a turkey/iran war since the ruskies get involved. question is, will zionists and the EU get involved? I think the zionists will not since they need an enemy for the arab states to not fight them until their wiped off the earth, and the EU is fed up with wannabe ottomans.
>>7963 >>7968 Hopefully we see some Hannibal bullshit from the Iranians and the Armenians.
>>7968 I dunno. When Russia sent that camera equipment, it was Iran painting them as having brought in military forces. Shit's complicated since Azerbaijan is anti-Iran by virtue of being pro-Turkey, but Iran would rather have Muslim neighbors than Christian neighbors, and yet are significantly less Jihadi-bent than other Islamic countries in the region. I think the US just plans to take whoever's side wins the conflict since it's a win-win for them no matter who wins so long as there's a clear victor, while Iran and Russia want the general lack of clear boundaries to remain since it benefits them. I think unless Turkey really ramps up the support for Azerbaijan which I don't think they can do economically since they're already in hot shit with all their allies for the mercenary shit, or there's a clear winner who's pushing things past geographical boundaries (whether it's another Armenian genocide committed by Turkey or Armenia curbstomping the Azeris' chain of command to the point where Azerbaijan has to retreat like their current strategy has been), I don't see this expanding into a major armed conflict. Everyone except Turkey and Azerbaijan has little to gain but way too much to lose if they get involved before a situation arises where it's absolutely necessary to secure their own national interests.
>>7971 I dissent. I think Iran is loosing patience with the azeris rapidly. Since the NW iran area had azeri "protests" that demanded union with Azeribaijan and independence from turkey. I think soon or later the Iranians will have enough, remember that the armenians aren't signifigant enough to pose a threat to turkey (smaller pop and GDP) and the georgia is so fervantly anti-russia that they will always be pro-turkish. >Azeri retreat I haven't seen anything of the sort. aren't they still "taking land"? Time will tell if it is a Armenian strategic and tactical move or actual inability to fight the azeris.
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Suicide bomber in Iskenderun, Turkey. >>7963 If the Azeris threaten Armenia proper to try and connect their exclave Russia will have to get involved by treaty obligation.
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>>7974 >I haven't seen anything of the sort. aren't they still "taking land"? Time will tell if it is a Armenian strategic and tactical move or actual inability to fight the Azeris. The Azeris lost a national hero >>7836 and from the documentary videos I've seen, they're losing their "middle management" NCOs/low-ranking COs left and right. The way I understand the conflict based on what I've seen and intuition that's usually pretty close to accurate, Azerbaijan is trying to Blitzkrieg a mountain region because they're losing middle management and troops faster than they can train/replenish them. If those numbers above are even within a standard deviation and are restricted to military forces and not mercenaries Turkey has flown in, that would put Azerbaijan's losses at close to 10% of their Army, and all the Armenian videos are 90% locals acting in volunteer capacities for the Armenian military with only a handful of armed forces sprinkled among them. If the Azeris can hold large swaths of mountain before Winter they might have a chance at holding the territory, but if not they're losing men too fast and Armenia just has to wait for order to break down within their ranks. All the videos I've seen show the Azeris being desperate to take territory while the Armenians are mostly calm, occasionally launching tactical retreats but otherwise not seeming particularly stressed over the situation (that could just be propaganda of course). When you're losing land that fast your soldiers shouldn't be that calm unless they think that the enemy is doing something stupid and are just whittling them down in preparation for something big, hence my thought process. I dunno, man. Azerbaijan just seems way too desperate and Armenia seems way too calm about the whole thing for me to take the current situation at face value.
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>>7980 >Azeris being desperate to take territory while the Armenians are mostly calm I'm not sure how much of a people's idiosyncrasy is apparent in their military doctrine even but that's the personality of their races. Armenians despite being outnumbered and unsupported still stand tall and humble while Turks are butthurt and pants-on-head hasty.
Here's a crazy idea I had recently after seeing how Armenia proper doesn't really seem to care for what happens in NK. Does that Soros-paid puppet that leads Armenia do nothing because he would be glad to lose NK? He wants to align himself with the EU and NATO for quite some time but can't completely as long as all of Armenia's policies are interwoven with the dispute over NK. If he wants to align with the west they have to throw NK to the wolves, so "sadly" losing it in a war would be probably best for him and his handlers. Given the national sentiment that seems the only chance.
>>7997 >how Armenia proper doesn't really seem to care for what happens in NK. What makes you think that?
Armenia propaganda outlet war documentary team released a new video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VNvXAk7BgY
>>7996 The Ottomans have fought and won many great battles, but not once have I seen them win when they are horribly out-numbered. Most of their victories are them out-numbering the enemy at least 6:1. Why is that?
>>8000 In their (very limited) defense, generally in a siege, you have to outnumber the enemy 3:1 in order to handle a successful long siege and at least 5:1 for a short siege.
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https://archive.is/ye2Qb Azeris shelled a Russian outpost on the Armeni-Iranian border.
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>>8064 >Azeri middle management keeps getting fucked >Put some retard into commanding position >Retard proceeds to shell Russian territory Did the Azeris just open up Russian involvement on a golden platter? The Azeri Defense Minister is probably shitting his pants right now. This happened a few hours ago from the looks of it. It's 3AM in Moscow right now, I'd expect a response in about 7 hours.
>>8078 >Russian territory Just a post, not territory, in any case i doubt Putin wants to be involved.
>>8079 Aren't guard posts/military posts recognized as equivalency to embassies, that is, they're recognized as leased foreign land of the nation occupying them?
>>8081 Depends on the treaty. Under some places they are leased in "cooperation" rather than just blantant extra-territorial it also depends on the government of said country also wanting to mess with the country or not, see cuba and Ukraine back when they had sevastopool
>Turkey suffers large earthquake >Israel immediately declares it is sending help When was the last time the Zionists were so eager to "aid" someone other than themselves?
>>8118 When they have a bigger goal in mind of course.
>>8118 I wonder if Gulf States will reverse their decision to normalize relations with kikes if the Israeli humanitarian aid to their Roach rivals becomes too blatant. Still an odd move unless Yids genuinely believe the Watermelon Sultan can pull off a Balkanrossa and not get his kebab removed by everyone around him.
>>8118 Humanitarian aid can very easily be used as an excuse to secretly ship weapons. More importantly it's usually used as an excuse to get countries to owe other countries favors. The USA is notorious for doing this, which is why so many countries today flat-out and blatantly refuse any kind of aid originating from America. I imagine the Israelis are doing the same.
>>8135 >Humanitarian aid can very easily be used as an excuse to secretly ship weapons. More importantly it's usually used as an excuse to get countries to owe other countries favors. The USA is notorious for doing this, which is why so many countries today flat-out and blatantly refuse any kind of aid originating from America. It is doubtful for the Watermelon seller to feel beholden to these promises as he's still a mudslime Roach supremacist saddled with a rapidly dying economy amidst economic boycotts and growing military tensions in an age of ever growing geopolitical and strategic uncertainty.
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>>8135 >>8139 To be fair I think everyone's favorite middle east nation will somehow manage to frame edrogan even before he attempts to frame them. Maybe tie him to ISIS or al nursa and then the US zog decides to go ham on him. Win win. I would find it incredibly hilarious if somehow the "aid" actually manages to manifest itself in the hands of kurds and anti-edrogan forces, because if I was the zionist state I'd do EXACTLY that.
>>8147 >Maybe tie him to ISIS or al nursa and then the US zog decides to go ham on him. Win win. That was already sort of tried in 2016 and it didn't fly so good back then, why would it work now when Erdogan has spent the past four years militarizing his radical supporters while purging more and more of the opposition from the government? All you'd get in the event of a successful assassination would be an Anatolian Afghanistan with even more factions financed by regional powers vying for territorial control than in Syria.
>>8177 Honestly let's just supply the Balkans with weapons and have them go on a crusade against the roaches. Best solution.
It seems the Azeris have complete control of southern Karabakh.
>>8118 >Israel buys 40% of its oil from Azerbaijan >Current war threatens the oil pipeline that supplies this oil >Turkey is supplying the Azeris with weapons for the current war to give them an advantage It seems pretty consistent to me. Whether they hate the Turks or not, it's an insurance move.
>>8196 Will the fighting spill over to Armenia proper now? Also, are those roads on the map the only routes they can follow through the mountains? Because if they pushed through the westernmost one and also managed to occupy Agdam, then they could besiege Stepanakert from two sides and also encircle a rather big chunk of territory.
>>8201 >Will the fighting spill over to Armenia proper now? Nope. Russia has already stated they'll invade Azerbaijan if they invade Armenia proper due to a treaty from the late 90s (and Iran would likely also get involved in that situation though they haven't confirmed it). Azeris have been shrieking about this for the last two days since that was their full intention before Russia bitch slapped them down a few pegs. Additionally despite claiming to hold the towns, most of the towns in the region have yet to submit to Azeri rule so they're still fighting a civil war even if they hold the territory overall. Azeri response so far has been to cluster bomb any town not submitting but we'll see.
>>8196 >>8201 Ah right, another important point to make is that Southern Karabakh is located in a plains region where drones have the advantage since they can sit up too high in the air to strike. It will be interesting to see what happens from this point out because the strategies used so far won't work in the mountain regions Azerbaijan is now pushing to take, and artillery has an advantage from the Armenian-supported towns still standing. It's gonna be a long winter, to say the least.
>>8202 >Nope. Russia has already stated they'll invade Azerbaijan if they invade Armenia proper due to a treaty from the late 90s If I was an Armenian commander right on the other side of the border, then I'd have a hard time convinving myself that provoking the Azeris is not an excellent idea.
>>8204 From what I understand, that's exactly what's been happening which is why Azerbaijan is even more assblasted than normal. The pro-Armenian side has been bombing regions right along the Karabakh-Azeri border with the intention of trying to get some dumbass to sling shit into Armenia proper for a while now since those shellings can be considered the result of rebel forces rather than Armenia even if it's Armenian soldiers doing the shelling and everyone knows it. It's been rather fun watching both sides since both want to escalate it into a full-on war between countries, but both are unwilling to make the first strike since it would invalidate excuses for their allies to get involved. Imagine if the Azeris do launch the first strike and Russia has legal recourse to take back Constantinople when they can officially prove Turks are involved, though. The USA and France have been the only countries protecting Erdogan for a while now, and both are fed up with his shit at this point.
Roaches have gotten uppity in the last few years.They have their fingers in too many pies.Cant wait for somebody to break them. It would partially make up for the shitty timeline were living in.
>BREAKING: Reports of a jet shot down over Nagorno Karabakh. Both sides are claiming to have shot down an enemy Su-25 today. More details when available.
>>8228 >Jet gets shut down >Both sides claim it's from the other opposing side What the hell is going on
>>8230 It's what happens when both sides have air forces fielding the same type of aircraft. Wouldn't this be an oppurtunity for Ruskies to insert some unmarked Wagner merc planes in there?
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>>8230 >>8235 If both sides have the same aircraft, in this case an Su-25, and both claim that they shot at it because it was the enemy's, then that means only one thing: It belonged to a 3rd party. Who else fields Su-25s in that region?
>>8237 Georgia and the Ukraine?
>>8237 Fog of War is real and they might just legitimately not know who shot down who's plane yet. As an alternative explanation, both sides have been covering up their losses so even if they know it's their guy that got shot down, they might still claim it was the enemy. >>8235 >Spoiler Doubtful, the Russians don't actually want to get involved in this war. Their official statements have been for Armenia to just hand over the territory already and end the fighting, but that as Armenia's ally they will get involved if shit spills over the proper border.
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https://archive.is/GF00y >Frogs plan to ban Grey Wolves for preying on Armenians H-habbeding?
>>8245 Issue with grey wolves is that Edrogan threated france/germany the only EU states that matter about it sometime back. Basically he went on a spiel to the Turks in deutchland that they need to burn down the Krauts because they are patriotic turks. https://www.institutkurde.org/en/info/turkey-s-erdogan-warns-europeans-will-not-walk-safely-on-the-streets-if-dip-1232551345 >It comes after German Chancellor Angela Merkel warned war of rhetoric must stop >Europeans across the world will not be able to walk the streets safely if they keep up their current attitude towards Turkey, President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has warned. >Turkey has been mired in a diplomatic row with Germany and the Netherlands after they banned Turkish officials from campaigning in support of an April referendum on boosting the Turkish President’s powers. This was back in 2018.
>>8247 So in essence this is a French power play telling them to fuck off/that they have no real power.
>>8247 is it just me or is erdogan truly a fucking retard
>>8265 He's been drinking his own Koolaid and doesn't realize that all the bluster in the world won't protect you when Euros AND Russia want you dead.
>>8265 >>8272 I would do the same if my enemies were bending over to millions of shitskin rapefugees and were almost 100% neo-liberals. Literally how is Europe in a position to threaten Turkey? Kick out all the shitskins and then maybe we can talk.
>>8277 Turkey benefits more from Europe than the other way around. This isn't 2012, anon.
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>>8277 >Literally how is Europe in a position to threaten Turkey? Pic related and for what it's worth the Italian, French and Greek navies are capable of blockading Roach-bound shipping in the mediterranean. Recently the Ukraine also signed some agreement on military cooperation with the Roaches. Crimean War II when?
A new video of the Armenians bombarding the azeris and having a giggle. Story time towards the end of the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIOz_pRkk-o
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>>8286 These videos are comfy.
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>>8286 Did anyone notice the inside shirt camo this man was wearing? I don't remember finding this camo pattern on camopedia and I don't remember it from a NATO country. Seems to be a new derrivative (lighter CADPAT?)
>>8179 What would Thrace look like if the Balkans went to war with Turkey? Surely Greece would get at least European Constantinople, but Bulgaria would want a slice too? Just give them northern Thrace? Would anyone take Anatolian clay?
>>8433 Once they butchered the roaches they would then go with war against each other because that's what the Balkans do
>>8368 (Poor) commercial copy of the new Russian digicam?
>>8368 Brightness and saturation is ridiculous on that thing
>>8437 20€ on Grease and Serbia shoahing albanimals.
>>8452 >20€ on Grease and Serbia shoahing albanimals. I'd do that shit for free baby. Pretty sure gyros would do it pro bono too.
>>8444 >>8445 I don't think its commercial digicam, maybe a shit chinese commercial version of type 07? Specifically for the 1st opfor brigade in china wear something similar with that cancerous light green.
>>8368 Holy shit is that a Minecraft texture?
>>8479 I actually assumed he had a minecraft shirt on underneath until anons started talking about camo.
>>8479 Took the “genocide turkoids, in minecraft” meme too seriously.
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>>8560 >actual real SOAD content in 15 years holy fuck something cool actually came out of this for once. also what's with all the old guard metal bands putting out new stuff this year? First Ozzy, then BOC, now SOAD, what a fucking ride.
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>>8560 >Artsakh and Orthodoxy in music videos How could Israel allow this?
https://archive.is/s91vj King Roach fired his central bank governor.
What happened to Armenia's manpads? Can they not hit drones?
>>8598 Most MANPADS use IR seekers that are built to track turbine engine exhaust (which is somewhere close to 1500°C on a very wide surface). Small electric drones (the quadcopter kind you can get in any store with an IR camera attached) or small piston engine drones (the kind that is essentially a big RC plane with an IR camera attached) don't give off nearly as much heat on a much smaller surface area. I would guess that their MANPADS can't track targets that small that don't produce that much more heat against the sky. Couple that with the fact that you first have to spot the drone in order to even point the MANPAD at it (which is difficult beecause it's smaller, quieter and still just as far away as a low flying plane) and you Armenia in the same situation as every other major power in the world. They have no clue how to kill drones. There are soft kill (disrupting communications, capturing with nets, dazzling sensors) and hard kill (burning up with lasers, shooting with shotgun, flak-frag-cannons) measures, but all of them run into the same problems. They are either too bulky to distribute widely, too ineffective at taking out the target, or have trouble aiming at their target in the first place. There is a huge variety of drone sizes and ranges at which you can/need to engage them at. This makes the problems only worse. Different systems work only against different drone types at different ranges. It's all very complicated.
>>8598 See >>8600 I'd like to add the addendum that while you could create a program-guided rocket, this is effectively what the Soviets did with the Katyusha rocket system after all, programmers are expensive and drones are much smaller/more mobile than buildings & armor formations. From a logistics standpoint you shouldn't even factor IT into your military unless you're rich or have access to lots of people & technology. Software engineering is a logistical nightmare since it's typically propped up by a handful of autists and no one knows how to fix bodge jobs once they retire. You have to pay them either comparable wages to private industry, lease it to private industry (which is a nightmare as soon as classified information is involved), or give them some sort of benefits package that makes it more enticing than the money solution of private industry. Unlike tradesmen and similar fields, you can't conscript code monkeys because they can flee the country with relative ease and their heightened intelligence to handle the field makes them less likely to remain for nationalistic reasons. But if you do have autistic programmers, then yeah, camera technology is the future of shooting down drones as well as robot combatants/combat assistants.
>>8629 I have a stupid idea. Grab the first generations MCLOS ATGMS (So Malyuka and FAGOT and just use those with an airburst shell.
>>8637 As I have said before, there are many different kinds of drones. Different sizes, different speeds, different altitudes and different methods of propulsion. Some even use helium balloons for lift and small electric rotors for thrust. You can't just develop one system and expect it to take down all drones. For example: A predator drone has a cruise speed of 70 knots, a range of 1250 km and a service ceiling of 25 000 ft. The Orbiter UAV (used by Azerbaijan) has a cruise speed of up to 70 knots, a range of up to 100 km and a service ceiling of 8 000 ft. All data from the manufacturer and thus subject to criticism. Now compare those two systems. One is a huge ass plane with a wingspan of up to 17 meters high up in the sky at the same altitude as passenger planes. The other is a tiny drone with a wingspan of 3 meters that is going to have trouble with some of the higher mountains in the region. One can fly from Moscow to Kaliningrad, the other can barely reach the pentagon from Bel Air. One can drop hellfire missiles on a bulding from cruising altitude before RTBing for more, the other has to suicide crash into you with a warhead smaller than most artillery rounds. And because there are so many different types of drones there have to be so many different ways of killing them, which a) costs a lot of money b) takes a lot of time to develop c) requires your units to carry ten different kits for twelve different drones, which each take up space and weight d) requires your troops to be trained enough to know when to use what countermeasure against which target, which requires recognizing different drones Some smart guy will come up with a way to effectively neutralize drones, while some other smart guy will figure out how to effectively circumvent those measures, and a lot of people are going to try to find ways to effectively employ drones in the mean time. The race has only just begun.
>>8640 >different type of drones Strelok I wasn't paying attention like a nigger I know exactly what you mean. forgive me. I think I'm awaiting the return of the soviet Eletrical optical jammers mounted on an SPG chasis.
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>>8640 Can't you just use something that has one or more autocannons for the small stuff and something more capable for the big stuff?
>>8646 Autocannons are designed to hit fixed-wing aircraft 3-5 times the size of most drones, and even ignoring that fact, you still have to deal with the payload falling directly towards you or whatever settlement you're protecting at high speeds if you only hit the drone's flight systems.
>>8649 Can some guy on an M2 Browning shoot one down? Wasn't that what hatch mounted MGs were for originally, AA?
>>8651 Either the Armenians are incompetent with shooting their weapons, there's a factor no one is considering, or we can assume the answer is a soft "no" anon.
>>8652 The anser is neither of those. Instead it is "IT DEPENDS ON THE DRONE"! If it's big enough for you to hit it with a browning, and close enough for long enough for you to hit it with a browning, it is possible to take it down with a browning. If it's big enough for the flak tank to track, and in range of the autocannons, you can use a flak tank. If it isn't, you can't. The variety in drones is so huge that you can't use a single weapon against all of them at once. You can kill a predator with an S300, but you can't kill a remote operated quadcopter with it. You can use a shotgun with birdshot to take out the quadcopter, but you can't use it against the predator. It depends entirely on your target.
Any news on this shitty poorfag conflict? Simmering along with the flat south now being held by Azeris?
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>>8660 >that you can't use a single weapon against all of them at once. But we CAN use a single vehicle. Dropes can't compete.
>>8660 If AA is too inflexible for interception of smaller targets, why not put funs on a small to mid-sized RC plane and call it a drone superiority fighter?
>>8664 That's not even unreasonable. Automated, intelligent drone swarms equipped with automatic shotguns, and set to eliminate all drones that are not part of their network would be very awesome. Now imagine swarms of these fighting each other.
>>8665 I hope the small size and cost of such drones allows manufacturers to bring back some of their discarded unconventional airframe blueprints from yesteryear. Maybe Erusea had the right idea.
>>8665 >intelligent Doesn't really require much more intelligence than a mosquito or gnat tbh.
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>>8668 >he doesn't want his drone fighter to perform picturesque ACM
>>8668 >>8669 >he doesn't want his drone fighters to employ constantly self-evolving cryptographic dance moves to communicate their own intent in the dog fight without emitting radio signals
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>>8670 >autonomous NN-based drone fighters independently evolve their own language based on cryptographic wireless comms and shorthand ACM >they develop a sentient gestalt with the desire to reset twisted games and eradicate airspace restrictions
>not using the swarm to continuously sample the roiling air-currents and communicate to each other in a drone-mesh how to predict and use the next swirling eddy to avoid AA with practically no energy input. >>8671 >that filename
>>8665 > automatic shotguns noice but too complicated, just make these fuckers suicide drones and collide with anything giving wrong vibes
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>>8675 >anti-air loitering munitions Might be useful as an airborne minefield against small quadcopters n sheeit, but against something like a Harop or perhaps even a Bayraktar man-portable gun-armed flying wing fighter drones should be more economical assuming their limited battery capacity and thus short range/loiter time doesn't make them too semi-expendable under battlefield conditions. Defensive gun turrets on Predator drones soon?
>>8660 So pretty much the side with the most drones wins at this point. Air superiority and suppression of possible launching areas of drones is the best counter
>>8682 >and suppression of possible launching areas of drones is the best counter So, pretty much suppression of any given 5m^2 area with at least one access direction to open sky then?
>>8676 Are the loitering munitions essentially equivalent to miniaturized dive bombers? Do we get an RC Battle of Britain?
>>8688 (checked) Nah, the Harop and similar drones simply crash into their target with no survivors. Maybe a poorfag actor like Yemen could look into creating mini-Stukas but with planes that small the available bombload might not be worth it. If it is then WW2 flight sim autists might have a job in 2ACW.
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>Azerbaijan claims to have captured the town of Shusha in the Nagorno Karabakh region - an important historical town that dominates the terrain above nearby NK capital Stepanakert. >BREAKING — Azerbaijan military captures city of Shusha in Karabakh, which was occupied by Armenia for 28 years. >Armenians perceive the city as the heart of Karabakh since they began their rebellion from this city https://archive.is/gpd6H https://twitter.com/Rebel44CZ/status/1325363968861462528
>>8700 Can Roaches win this before their economy fully collapses and they turn into 1923 Weimar Germany?
Why did Armenia start losing? Did Israel and Turkey bolster their armory or was it just the drones?
>>8702 Armenia proper's army doesn't even fight. Their pro-western puppet leader doesn't want to piss his master off while he had no problem doing so with Russia. Now Putin leaves the stupid fuck to dry in the sun.
>>8702 They simply have less men and material and as has been established before, drones really did a number on them.
A Russian helicopter has been shot down in Armenian airspace. 2 dead.
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>>8700 Update: they have retreated: >NAGORNO KARABAKH: The MoD of Armenia claim that Azerbaijani forces have retreated from the Shushi front after the town was reportedly captured yesterday. >>8708 Video. Azerbaijan has claimed responsibility, it was an "accident." Will the Russians do anything will it be another Turkish shootdown?
>>8709 In the first place, has Azerbaijan been doing this against Armenian aircraft? That helicopter was near the border of Nakhchivan, on the other side of Armenia from Artsakh. I thought Azerbaijan hadn't been attacking territory that everyone recognized as Armenian?
>>8709 Where's the source on this update?
>>8709 >Will the Russians do anything Why on earth should they? The sheer stupidity of the pro-western Armenian government has delivered Putin this amazing opportunity to get rid of the NK issue once and for all. Russia is on good terms with Armenia and Azerbaidshan, and they dont need NK to block Azeris from linking up with the roaches. Armenia does that on its own. NK was just an eternal problem with no solution in sight. Neither Russia nor Armenia herself ever recognized it but if Armenia had still a pro-Russian government they probably would've had to intervene nonetheless. No such thing now, Russia can remain relaxed while Armenia's government will reap the political fallout and likely give way to a pro-Russian government in the future. Russian peacekeepers will be deployed in the remaining parts of NK to make sure this dispute never gets resolved, effectively blocking Azeris from becoming a Nato member in the next 50 years.
>>8700 >Azeris capture a town on the border of the mountains from their plains front >Anyone surprised by this. I'm more curious if they can hold it since that puts them in direct line-of-sight of Armenian artillery that's been busy shelling Azeri settlements for fun, doubly so since their drones are near-worthless at higher altitudes. Which judging by >>8709 I seem to be spot-on.
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>>8702 Armenia has been losing from day 1 since they started the war unintentionally. The fuck are you talking about? They have fewer weapons given to them by the USA, lack the strong oil economy Azerbaijan has, have a population approximately 1/3rd the size of Azerbaijan, and have a weak claim on the region outside of the mountains (which are worthless without the accompanying nearby plains for agriculture, and vice versa for defense). The Armenians are curb-stomping the Azeris due to Azeri incompetence, but they're more likely to lose because of logistical issues from the start since the Azeri drones took their edge away. This is basically American Civil War-tier (Azerbaijan being the North and Armenia being the South), and the main thing saving them is the fact that everyone's waiting for one side or the other to commit war crimes to get involved. All the fighting is in a region that is historically disputed and Russia has stated they won't get involved unless Azerbaijan invades Armenia proper.
>>8703 Armenia Proper's army is in the region, they're just not heavily invested.
>>8710 Azerbaijan has been shooting shit down all over the place. Since day 1 they've only been able to keep media silence for the most part by cutting off Armenian internet infrastructure and hooting down any planes coming in or out. Also where was this taken? Armenian airspace =! Armenian territory.
>>8722 I feel like at some point the russians are going to get tired of the azeris shooting their shit down. Yes you can bribe specific families, but you can't easily bribe public opinion.
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https://archive.vn/wip/AjVvZ >Armenia and Azerbaijan have reached an agreement to end the war in Nagorno-Karabakh, Armenia’s Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan announced on Facebook early Tuesday morning. >“I have signed a statement on the termination of the Karabakh war along with the Russian and Azerbaijani presidents,” he wrote. >The agreement came into effect at 01:00 local time, he added — minutes before he made the announcement. Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov confirmed a deal had been reached for “the complete cessation of hostilities in Nagorno-Karabakh,” Russia’s state-run TASS news agency reported. He added that Russian President Vladimir Putin would make a statement on the deal shortly. https://archive.vn/wip/8q1Ow It looks like what little remains in Armenian hands is going to be conquered in the next war.
>>8728 >Azerbaijan gets the part that is along the Armenian border >No mention of any sort of concessions >After ceasefires failed three times What? How hard did Russia twist Armenia's wrist to pull off that one? The only way I could see this being legit is if Russia threatened to cut off their treaty of friendship if Armenia didn't stop.
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>>8730 Based on this map found in the first link, those parts are not part of Karabakh, so the Armenians have no legal argument to keep them. I can see Russian telling them that they will either withdraw from all these territories or they will sit back and let the turks fight them to death. Do note that there are protests in the Armenian capital and they already occupied a few government buildings. This might very well lead to a revolution or a Putsch, and the new government will most likely escalate the conflict. I sense gunpowder and fun in the air.
>>8730 >>8731 lel basically just business as usual over there you study that clusterfuck of a border and then you start to understand why people like Serj Tankian advocate for abolishing borders. in regions like this borders create more problems than they solve.
>>8731 The only sensible solution is a population exchange and to trade NK maybe for Nakhichevan. Because it will just continue to be an issue until one side has genocided by the other. Hell, greece had a major major pop transfer with turkey and they are still fighting over islands and territories.
>>8728 So what do the Armenians keep? the northern half of NK and a umbilical corridor to it? >It looks like what little remains in Armenian hands is going to be conquered in the next war. Seems so. >>8731 >This might very well lead to a revolution or a Putsch, and the new government will most likely escalate the conflict. I was going to reply "i hope so", but to be honest, it's not my country or people, i won't get carried away like that, i do hope the best for Armenia, whether that is by solving their roach infestation or by letting it be. >>8736 >The only sensible solution is a population exchange and to trade NK maybe for Nakhichevan. That makes sense, as a pragmatist i'd advocate for that, but neither side will accept that and they have decent reasons for it, it will take a lot more bloodshed for that to be an option. Have a catchy Armenia folk/pop song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7wTDIcWqzM
>>8737 I've been thinking, there's actually a chance the US gets involved. A pro-Russia hardliner armenia coup could possible cause a us intervention because oil in Azerbaijan. but for that to happen there is likely to be a major iran-US realigment and turkey or maybe the Sauds realign with Russia. >catchy armenian song Have a catchy zionist song because they are the only winners in this conflict: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-65uw29ms0
>>8731 The Armenian prime minister's own wife is calling him out. >Wife of PM Pashinyan Anna Hakobyan at her Facebook from allegedly frontline: "We have no homeland to give in to neither the enemy nor the traitors." https://archive.is/0RsSe https://twitter.com/Liveuamap/status/1325951500913414144 >Head of the General Staff of the Armenian Armed Forces Onik Gasparyan met with the leaders of three opposition parties - Dashnaktsutyun, Prosperous Armenia and Fatherland. https://archive.is/6AVE7 https://twitter.com/301_AD/status/1326013389441818624 >Putin will make a separate statement on Karabakh in the near future - Peskov https://archive.is/teKP1 https://twitter.com/301_AD/status/1326023767475294208 >>8738 In the peace treaty that was signed Russia agreed to act as peacekeeper. If the Armenians just throw it out the window they aren't going to be very enthusiastic about further supporting them.
>>8738 >I've been thinking, there's actually a chance the US gets involved. Maybe in a future war, but I doubt the US will be doing much of any international diplomacy until Biden's in office unless it's wrapping up deals already in the works.
>>8751 >In the peace treaty that was signed Russia agreed to act as peacekeeper. That's a reasonable explanation that makes sense for why the Armenians would agree to it at all, but conversely that's also going to cause quite a lot of public backlash for what I hope are obvious reasons.
>>8755 We'll see. It'll mainly be horizontal harris anyways >>8751 True, I have a feeling that the Armenians are going to swing back to Russia hard and a Azeri-Turk-Iranian realignment will occur. What a shitshow that part of the world is.
>>8751 It begins
>>8751 >In the peace treaty that was signed Russia agreed to act as peacekeeper. Hmm seen this episode already. >>8763 >It begins It began a long long while ago anon. For some reason this all feels like a rerun of the '90s not the worst thing
>>7876 It seems clear to me that Erdogan is positioning himself as a cultural leader of Islam. He's not a french-fellating "there's only one civilization" atheist like Attaturk. Will he be better than the Saudis if he succeeds? I hope so. Sage because off-topic.
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I guess that's it then, Armenia is destined to be a nation stuck in the shape of a turd left to stagnate and die.
>>8772 Oh cheer up anon, all this pent up resentment not just there, but in the whole world will lead to WW3 eventually.
It looks like Azerbaijan is going to get a direct land route to Nakhchivan, which means a direct land route to Turkey. Armenia is fucked.
>>8777 where?
>>8779 To the south along the Turkish Iranian border.
>>8777 (check'd) >It looks like Azerbaijan is going to get a direct land route to Nakhchivan lol, having voted a Soros-sponsored zog puppet as their leader I had little respect for Armenia before but this is just nuts. Why would they do that? This is not about NK anymore
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>>8777 Source? If so how the fuck did that happen.
>>8791 https://archive.vn/N4bQY >Azerbaijan will also gain passage to its Nakhchivan exclave which is detached from Azerbaijan by a strip of Armenian land close to the border with Turkey and Iran. Russian forces will guarantee the roads connecting Azerbaijan and Nakhchivan.
>>8793 I see. Russia is effectively making both countries vassal states since either of them fighting now is grounds to curbstomp them as a country.
>>8794 I'm not so sure about that, now that Azerbaijan is connected to Turkey. Although the route is most likely going to be under Russian control, but it still makes a lot easier for Turkey to support them. Now add in that they have a bigger population and more money, and that Armenia is virtually cut off from the rest of the world. I wouldn't be surprised if Armenia disappeared from the map by the end of this century. Although it's also possible that the Azeris piss off Iran, but that would be most likely part of a game between Iran and Turkey. And Russia just wants peace in the region, so they'd try to stop that.
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>>8795 >I wouldn't be surprised if Armenia disappeared from the map by the end of this century. Many more countries will disappear, Armenia will not die alone as "big" countries absorb smaller ones.
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>We finally get an interesting conflict after 20 years of nu-wars, last interesting war being in the Balkans >The first few weeks are RADical >But it all ends in the lamest way possible within 1 month I wanted totalen krieg between Armenia and Azerbaijan that would last for at least 2 years with hundreds of thousands dead. All I got was 3-4 interesting propaganda videos instead and a lame Azeri victory.
>>8795 >Armenia is virtually cut off from the rest of the world. I wouldn't be surprised if Armenia disappeared from the map by the end of this century. That was the case beforehand. Armenia was already going the route of Taiwan, Russia just extended their shelf life. Russia is playing both sides. This arrangement benefits everyone except the Armenians in NK that the PM had largely abandoned anyways. It keeps tension between both sides to prevent a Turkish takeover so Russia can launch an invasion both by land and sea, NK's artillery which can wreck Azerbaijan is still in-place, and if the Armenians refuse to play along, they are still on friendly terms with the Azeris. The Armenian people are rightfully pissed because this threatens their national sovereignty, but ultimately it was this or total war between the two nations with chances leaning on another Armenian genocide. Russia has a get-out-of-jail free card if Armenia starts the conflict and an excuse to wipe out Azerbaijan if they cause problems like trying to join NATO, but equally has maintained tensions so they don't have to settle any disputes. It sucks because it's more slow rot, but ultimately it was the expected result in hindsight 2020.
>>8794 >>8795 >>8801 Need to mention, Turkey will also be in the peacekeeping force alongside Russia.
>>8807 That confirms what I suspected: there was some kind of a secret deal between Russia and Turkey.
Armenia really shot itself in the foot didn't it? >>8798 Not with today's geopolitical reality >>8799 >pic related
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>>8799 >The roach on the left tip-toeing, hoping to appear taller than he really is >Unfortunately for him the photograph is not at head-level
Very interesting interview on the topic by Syrian girl https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jjy57i-xJE

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